Miland: He saw at once that this was impossible. He could not learn such words himself. To memorise them was beyond human power. A language must have living words if it itself to live.

I don't really believe in "livingness" of words, except for some. For example, patrino have most of the time the letter M in it, maybe because of the babilage of the babies: "mamamam". For the rest, I disagree, it's just a "europeanism".

,

Concerning 'Europeanism', Zamenhof developed a language that did transcend several nations and even European-ness in terms of its structure. Claude Piron's essay on this subject is worth reading.

Concerning the evolution of the letters of the alphabet we know, I understand that their origin lay in pictographs, in other words not arbitrary collections of lines.

Children are geniuses at picking up languages without much effort, but this is not true for adults. I remember reading a report by a woman who had been in Cyprus who said that the children of her acquaintances could chatter away in Greek after a few months in the country, while adults were still struggling with the basics.

EL_NEBULOSO:I also don't think that Slovio will be able to attract a lot of speakers. And even it it would, I think Esperanto is better in many aspects.

Esperanto certainly is better, but then again, anyone can learn any language, just the mental roadblocks need to be defeated first . I think though that the sheer amount of grammar (more than just 16 or something rules) that Slovio has will easily put people off, just like Finnish's immense case system (which is simpler than learning words like 'in' and 'on', but English speakers just hear 'case' and 'declension' and freak out ). Overall though, I think the original Slavic languages are better auxlangs than Slovio, simply because other slavic speakers are used to hearing them more than hearing Slovio which is alien. People only tend to understand what they recognise, unless they give it thought which can often be too much of a nuisance in everyday communication for some people.

Miland:Children are geniuses at picking up languages without much effort, but this is not true for adults.

Spot on Miland. I'm still fairly young but I can feel my brain 'close' up , luckily though I spent a lot of time learning many different languages before hand so at least I've got some form of a learning-base if I need it.

But, my failed attempts to become a polyglot by 19 aside, I don't know if Afrikaans has been all too considered for Folkspraak, given that it is based off of Dutch and acts a bit like a creole, but many Dutch people have said that it's easier to speak English to Afrikaaners than speak rudimentary Dutch. Actually, I reckon Afrikaans by itself could be an auxlang - simple grammar (except the STOMPI and plural rules), strong ties to Dutch, English, German, and uses some international 'lingo' as well... And, well, Scandinavians (probably/hopefully) already understand English well, so no problem there .

In regards to Esperanto having Euro-bias, the good thing about Esperanto is that it can adapt vocabulary easily, so, if it was popular, we could start using 'esperantoified' Japanese words like 'mi Ceigered desas, Kiel vi genka desas?' (desu (is) --> desas, genki (well) --> genka).

Of course, I've already tried to help 'improve' Esperanto so I might sit on the side lines for a bit.

Also three questions: What is a 'priori', what does 'ne gravas' mean, and can we say 'What the hell does X mean?' in the forums?

Thank you Andrew! I was going to say 'What the hell is a priori' but I figured I might be pushing the boundaries.

Does that mean that a prori language uses unique roots which are distinctly different from any other, like a priori language would NOT use something like 'austra' (e.g. Aus in Australia) to form a word like 'usser' for 'under'?
Because if that's the case, the language would be very hard to create .
And would this be the best way to go? Maybe there's an underlying problem in all human linguistic roots? However that would mean you'd first have to link things like Chinese with the Indo-European languages which would be very difficult.

So 'ne gravas' is like saying 'ok whatever' in Esperanto? I might start using that ha ha.

ceigered:

Miland:The 'immortology' website, not to mention his 'cosmology' makes him sound like a complete crackpot to me. I think this would certainly incline me towards giving 'Slovio' a wide berth if I weren't already so inclined.

Ha ha ha tre prava
There seems to be more recent 'Slavic Auxlangs' cropping up too, debatably more understandable, only they don't have 20 sites all owned by the same guy promoting their cause(s). On that note, they also AREN'T into crazy ideas which detract from the language.

That pretty much sums it up!

I just took another look at Slovio. I love the sound of Slavic languages, and the look too, especially when they use Cyrillic characters or "hatted" characters of various kinds, but I have a *very* low tolerance now for complex grammars (I think Esperanto may have spoiled me in that regard!), so I thought I'd give Slovio another chance.

There seems to be only a couple of people using it, though there is a news site that somebody's keeping fairly active (Zvestia). But mostly it's just those sites pointing at each other and to some lame girly/porn sites (not even good ones, just lame ones ). Most of the sites make me worry about viruses. And if not for the spammers, the mailing lists would be pretty much dead.

Mark Hucko has created another language, a simplified Russian called Ruskio. Looks a lot like Slovio... and the link titled more complex dictionary of 40 thousand words points to... the Slovio dictionary!

But I would like to play around a bit with a simplified Slavic language. Slovio may be a good place to start. Or maybe Slovioski... Seems that some members of the Slovio community decided that Slovio was too simplified, didn't have common enough vocabulary, should have used -i for the plural instead of -s... sound familiar?... so they created a new language based on Slovio.

They do have some handy utilities now, like searchable online (and downloadable) dictionaries, and a (downloadable) editor/spellchecker... haven't worked up the nerve to try the downloadable stuff yet... viruses?

Slovio Dictionary

Slovioski Dictionary

Ailanto:Seems that some members of the Slovio community decided that Slovio was too simplified, didn't have common enough vocabulary, should have used -i for the plural instead of -s... sound familiar?... so they created a new language based on Slovio.

Except for in this case Slavicising the language shouldn't be a problem as it's meant to be a Slavic language in the first place .

Slovianski (it's mentioned on the Slovioski site) is probably my preferred one but the rules on phonology for these languages seem less rigid than Norwegian, although I suspect that's because I'm an insular Germanic/Celtic speaker so I'm used to having stress on the first syllable or something like that and being able to slaughter my pronunciation especially when it comes to consonants like L and R.

More info about Slovioski.
http://tech.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/slovioski/
http://twitter.com/Slovioski

@ Ailanto:
If you're looking for a break from complicated grammar then there's always Bulgarian but keep in mind that you've got a slight problem with pronunciation once again (no marked stress). Croatian has easier stress rules but the complicated grammar.

EDIT: Had a look at Slovioski pronunciation (called "Alphabet") and saw "pisat'" - now I know they want words to resemble the Slavic form, but wouldn't it be easier if they made it "pisacx" considering that all Slavic languages have the 'cx' sound where not all pronounce 't'' exactly the same? Oh well.

ceigered:Had a look at Slovioski pronunciation (called "Alphabet") and saw "pisat'" - now I know they want words to resemble the Slavic form, but wouldn't it be easier if they made it "pisacx" considering that all Slavic languages have the 'cx' sound where not all pronounce 't'' exactly the same? Oh well.

That may be a leftover from Slovio. Hucko wrote "One should try to avoid such sounds as "sx, cx, zx," or use them as little as possible. These sounds tend to reduce the clarity and the comprehensibility of languages.".

I'd have to think about that a bit, but either way, I like those sounds!

ŝ ш, ĉ ч, ĵ ж!

Ailanto:
I'd have to think about that a bit, but either way, I like those sounds!

ŝ ш, ĉ ч, ĵ ж!

Me too, in fact those kind of sounds are probably what makes the slavic languages so distinct - the fact that they've undergone such a thorough purpose of palatalisation is amazing. Even other highly palatalised languages like English, Irish and Portuguese are not where near as soft to the ear (Mandarin maybe ).

That said, while I get Hucko's reasoning to an extent, 'sx', 'cx' and 'zx' are pretty much pan slavic, even more than t' is, and more comprehensible to just about everyone as many languages like English have highly reduced palatalisation (e.g. tune = choon or toon more often than RP 'tyoon'). That said I don't see Slovio as really achieving its fullest potential, but still respect it.

ceigered:That said I don't see Slovio as really achieving its fullest potential, but still respect it.

Interesting point.

I respect it for what it is, but it's hard to have very much respect for Hucko. I dislike the dishonest way in which the language is marketed. The highly suspect user reviews from speakers that you aren't sure really exist, the network of links that all point to one another. I don't really like the feeling of being sold on something that seems shady.

Having said this, I think Slovio is a cool idea, but I have my doubts about whether you can really go to all of these countries and speak it and be understood. I feel like it's way oversold.

Well, this has been a very exciting discovery for me - to find this forum where the posts are in English, but everything else is in a very familiar but very unfamiliar Slavic language!

My name is Steeven Radzikowski. I am one of the "co-enablers" of SLOVIOSKI. So it is with great interest for me to read your various comments on SLOVIO and its "spin-offs" - SLOVIOSKI and SLOVIANSKI.

Of the various questions posed in the "Vote", my answer would be that I do not believe that SLOVIO will succeed - in its current form. It is not "Slavic" enough IMHO.

I believe SLOVIOSKI has a far better chance to be accepted and used by Slavic speakers - either in its full "declension" and "conjugation" format - or in a more simplified version.

I believe SLOVIOSKI will be used primarily for internet communication and advertising across Slavic-speaking nations - the alternative to this would be, of course, "English."

SLOVIOSKI is only its beginning time of influence. As it becomes better known and recognized as a strong Slavic conlang, I believe it will gain momentum and a interested following.

We are currently working with a translation group to create a translation engine for it, similar to "Google Translate" - however, I have learned that this is easier said than done. Especially between English and Slovioski, because English is not the easiest of languages to translate into Slavic forms.

Thank you for letting me visit.
I am absolutely in awe over finding your surprisingly familiar but unfamiliar language. Is there a good English - Hornjoserbsce - English slownik available?
I would truly like to include it in our "master" set of words at: http://slovknig.wikia.com/wiki/Slovknig_Wiki

Thank you for reading my words. I could use some help in translating some of the Hornjoserbsce words I encountered while registering - (I could not find immediate translations using any of the other Slavic sister languages for several words, so I am not sure of what was asked of me.

Denkujim vam!