Please evaluate the quality of this Esperanto for me
viết bởi PrimeMinisterK, Ngày 14 tháng 1 năm 2023
Tin nhắn: 21
Nội dung: English
SlavikDze (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 11:28:51 Ngày 17 tháng 1 năm 2023
Sed kio do estas via eksperta konkludo, karaj kolegoj?
Ĉu la menciita eo-traduko estas sufiĉe bon-kvalita aŭ ne?
Ĉu indas elspezi pro tiu libro sian monon kaj tempon?
🧐🧐🧐🧐🧐
Altebrilas (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 13:30:28 Ngày 17 tháng 1 năm 2023
Altebrilas (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 13:44:06 Ngày 17 tháng 1 năm 2023
Miyamoto Musashi estas konsiderita kiel la plej granda skermisto iam en la historio de Japanio, en granda parto pro sia preskaŭ superreala disciplino.Mi skribus tion:
La japanoj taksas Miyamoto Musashi la plej granda glavisto de sia historio, cxefe pro lia kvazaŭ superhoma disciplino.
Cxu mankas ideoj aux cxu iuj estas misesprimitaj?
Cxu oni povas igi tiun frazon pli simpla, klara aux belsona?
PrimeMinisterK (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 03:44:05 Ngày 20 tháng 1 năm 2023
Metsis:You are absolute right. It may be regarded as a purely stylistic question whether to use the esti- (estas konsiderata) or the oni-passive (oni konsideras), but this nicely demonstrates the difficulty of getting tenses (both of the main verb and the participle) right when using the compound verb. With the simpler one-passive, you are less prone to make such mistake.I'll have to think on this more. But I can say that, while I don't personally claim to know what I'm talking about when it comes to compound verbs in Esperanto, I have always found them to be quite natural when reading them. Maybe it's because a phrase like "estas konsiderata" comes off as very English-like. It's certainly quite natural in English to say "Miyamoto Musashi is considered to be the greatest Japanese swordsman of all time. . ."
Metsis:I would say that the English words that come to mind foremost for me when thinking on the concept are: consider, regard, deem.
Given the other meanings of konsideri my reading is that konsideri requires more mental evaluation (I thought and came to the conclusion that Miyamoto is…) than rigardi (I do not need to think, it is commonly known that Miyamoto is…) when both are used in the same sense.
It seems to me that either konsideri or rigardi could work properly, Though I did note that one of the translations here at Lernu for "deem" is "rigardi kiel." There are a few other options as well, but konsideri is not among them.
PrimeMinisterK (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 03:50:46 Ngày 20 tháng 1 năm 2023
Metsis:Not that this means a whole lot, but Google Translate also uses iam when translating the sentence, "Miyamoto is considered the greatest swordsman ever."
This last case, with the future tense, is the only where I can see that iam gets translated to "ever". However the tense in the Miyamoto sentence is not future, but present, so it refers to some undefined time, which does not make sense in the sentence.
If you don't like iam, what word would you prefer?
PrimeMinisterK (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 04:04:05 Ngày 20 tháng 1 năm 2023
SlavikDze:Ĉi-fadena diskuto estas certe tre interesa...Bedaurinde, mia Esperanto ne estas sufiĉa por taksi la tekston. Sed, post ĉi tiu diskuto, mi suspektas, ke la traduko havas problemojn kaj povus esti pli bona.
Sed kio do estas via eksperta konkludo, karaj kolegoj?
Ĉu la menciita eo-traduko estas sufiĉe bon-kvalita aŭ ne?
Ĉu indas elspezi pro tiu libro sian monon kaj tempon?
🧐🧐🧐🧐🧐
PrimeMinisterK (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 04:04:34 Ngày 20 tháng 1 năm 2023
The translator of this book discussed his translation method over on Reddit. He freely stated that he starts with machine translation and then "delicately edits" what it spits out.
PrimeMinisterK (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 04:09:39 Ngày 20 tháng 1 năm 2023
Altebrilas:Ekzemple, mi provas reskribi la paragrafon laux viaj komentoj:Mi ŝatas vian tradukon, sed ĉu ne estas necese uzi "esti" aŭ "kiel" post "Musashi"?Miyamoto Musashi estas konsiderita kiel la plej granda skermisto iam en la historio de Japanio, en granda parto pro sia preskaŭ superreala disciplino.Mi skribus tion:
La japanoj taksas Miyamoto Musashi la plej granda glavisto de sia historio, cxefe pro lia kvazaŭ superhoma disciplino.
Cxu mankas ideoj aux cxu iuj estas misesprimitaj?
Cxu oni povas igi tiun frazon pli simpla, klara aux belsona?
Altebrilas (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 13:33:36 Ngày 20 tháng 1 năm 2023
mi taksas tiujn kondiĉojn neakcepteblaj; ni taksas la tempon ne taŭga por tiu propono.
Metsis (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 09:02:43 Ngày 23 tháng 1 năm 2023
PrimeMinisterK:Remember, translate ideas, not words.Metsis:This last case, with the future tense, is the only where I can see that iam gets translated to "ever". However the tense in the Miyamoto sentence is not future, but present, so it refers to some undefined time, which does not make sense in the sentence.Not that this means a whole lot, but Google Translate also uses iam when translating the sentence, "Miyamoto is considered the greatest swordsman ever."
If you don't like iam, what word would you prefer?
The correlatives, tabelvortoj, which begin with "i" always denote something indefinite, unspecified. In the sentence "Miyamoto is considered the greatest swordsman ever" the word "ever" does not denote some unspecified time, but all times.
Now the question is, how to express this "all times" in Esperanto. If we take the translation by Altebrilas (it is good)
Altebrilas:we could emphasise with de sia ĉiama historio or de sia tuta historio or just leave it as it is and say de sia historio, as Altebrilas has done, since the logical reading of that expression is that it covers the whole history, not just some part of it.
La japanoj taksas Miyamoto Musashi la plej granda glavisto de sia historio ĉefe pro lia kvazaŭ superhoma disciplino.