Meddelanden: 34
Språk: English
ceigered (Visa profilen) 11 december 2008 07:37:28
What would be more correct?
All men = cxiuj homoj (men in the general sense)
or 'tutaj homoj'?
All of the boys = la tuta de la knaboj *or* cxiuj knaboj?
Dankon!
Sinanthiel (Visa profilen) 11 december 2008 07:41:46
ceigered (Visa profilen) 11 december 2008 07:58:24
Sinanthiel:How exactly would you pronounce ĉiuj?Ha ha, go here:
http://en.lernu.net/komunikado/forumo/temo.php?t...
I asked the same question before, but for 'tiuj' I think. It's 'u' + a short 'i' sound, so it sounds like 'oy' but not really - if you've heard 'muy' in spanish, that's the sound you want. There might be sound clips in the early introductory lessons on Lernu...
mnlg (Visa profilen) 11 december 2008 08:28:39
"ĉiuj" therefore means "all of them, taken individually".
"tuta" means "whole" ("tute" = wholly).
Ni laboris dum ĉiu tago = We worked each (every) day.
Ni laboris dum tuta tago = We worked a whole day.
ceigered (Visa profilen) 11 december 2008 08:41:35
mnlg:"ĉiu" means "each", "every";So what's more correct?
"ĉiuj" therefore means "all of them, taken individually".
"tuta" means "whole" ("tute" = wholly).
Ni laboris dum ĉiu tago = We worked each (every) day.
Ni laboris dum tuta tago = We worked a whole day.
'Dankon por ĉiuj via helpo' aŭ 'Dankon por tuta via helpo?
mnlg (Visa profilen) 11 december 2008 08:51:28
"Thank you for your every (instance of) help", or "Thank you for your whole help"?
ceigered (Visa profilen) 11 december 2008 08:58:45
mnlg:What is it that you want to express?"Thanks for all your help". So I take it that 'tuta' refers to the whole of only one instance, where as 'cxiuj' refers to the whole of multiple instances?
"Thank you for your every (instance of) help", or "Thank you for your whole help"?
mnlg (Visa profilen) 11 december 2008 09:07:12
ceigered:"Thanks for all your help"I would translate that as "Dankon je via tuta helpo", but in my experience one usually thanks for the help without quantifying it
It would be perhaps easier to find forms along the lines of "Dankon por ĉio" (thanks for everything), or "dankon por ĉio kion vi faris por mi" (thanks for everything (that) you have done for me), etc.
So I take it that 'tuta' refers to the whole of only one instance, where as 'cxiuj' refers to the whole of multiple instances?"ĉiuj" refers to "every one(s)", "each one(s)".
This is why "ĉiuj" usually means "all" ("appreciated by all", "all who approve say yes", etc). But "all" also means "whole", as in "I worked all day", "I ate it all". You have to be able to recognize the difference.
ceigered (Visa profilen) 11 december 2008 10:01:00
erinja (Visa profilen) 11 december 2008 17:14:35
You could certainly say "Dankon por cxio kion vi faris por mi", to emphasize that you are thanking for everything. But normally in Esperanto we simply say "Dankon por via helpo"
In my opinion, when we use "...all your help" in English, we are not really saying "thanks for all" as opposed to "thanks for some". Rather, in my opinion it's just a way of saying "thanks very much". We use the word "all" to emphasize that we are very grateful because the person has done a lot. So I guess in Esperanto I wouldn't use a very literal translation. In cases where I'd say "Thanks for all your help" in English, I'd probably say "Grandan dankon por via helpo", or perhaps "Grandan dankon, vi helpis min tre multe". I probably would not say "Dankon por cxio kion vi faris por mi", although this is a somewhat more literal translation. And I would not say "Dankon je via tuta helpo". It translates the literal words of the English expression but it sounds unnecessarily awkward in Esperanto. Not every English expression has an Esperanto analogue that uses similar words (and vice versa).
It is normally easier just to say in Esperanto the idea that you want to get across, rather than trying to translate an English expression. This is easier said than done, I know. And we'll see if you're still reading, you mentioned that you tend to skim over large blocks of text and not read the content carefully, so I know I'm in trouble here