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-iz-suffix

от robinast, 13 декабря 2008 г.

Сообщений: 19

Язык: English

robinast (Показать профиль) 13 декабря 2008 г., 11:51:59

What is the suffix "-iz-" for? I looked for the English verb "plan" translation in Esperanto and found two Esperanto words for it in the lernu! dictionary: "plani" and "planizi". What is the difference between them? Curiously enough, I did not find the "planizi" in Eo-Eo dictionary (and neither in Eo-Russian nor Eo-Spanish dictionaries).
Harri.

enwilson (Показать профиль) 13 декабря 2008 г., 12:30:22

-iz- is a verb suffix indicating the application of something (either physically or metaphorically) to an object. Don Harlow's list says it's unofficial, which might be why the dictionary isn't cooperating.

robinast (Показать профиль) 13 декабря 2008 г., 14:32:40

Dankon! Thanks!
Harri.

erinja (Показать профиль) 13 декабря 2008 г., 19:41:03

Not only is it unofficial, I have never heard it used ridulo.gif

It is actually a borrowing from Ido (as are most unofficial Esperanto suffixes).

Ido has way more suffixes than Esperanto, and they tend to be extremely specific. Esperanto tends to leave things a tad more general, and have the reader figure out the meaning through context.

robinast (Показать профиль) 13 декабря 2008 г., 19:56:34

So, I'd better use "plani"...

Miland (Показать профиль) 13 декабря 2008 г., 21:39:54

Wells lists it under 'Technical and other unofficial suffixes' Here's his entry:
-iz- -ize: (i) provide with: najl/izi furnish with nails, stud; (ii) tech or sci procedure: hipnot/izi hypnotize

The entry in Butler begins
-iz(provizi per)(tech. sfx)
= -ize. Examples under four groups include
(a) Provide with: dent~i (buŝon)
(b) Fill or impregnate with: suker~i paston
(c) Cover with: Or~i (gilt)
(d) Bring under the influence of: hipnot~i.

It is found in PIV 2005. A summary of that entry:
-iz suf. uzata kun la signifoj:
1. apliki al io ekz glu~i etikedojn
2. provizi ekz elektr~i
3. apliki metodon ekz makadam~i

I translate:
"suffix used with the meanings
1. apply to something, eg glue labels
2. provide with eg electrify
3. apply a method eg macadamize.

Planizi would mean, I imagine, to furnish an individual or group of people with a plan, thus: la generalo bone planizis liajn kapitanojn antaŭ la batalo.

PMEG points out that we can often simply do without it, as in makadami.

The main reason for using it, in my view, is if we want to express the idea of the provision or application of something and can't think of a better way of translating it.

erinja (Показать профиль) 14 декабря 2008 г., 3:59:36

I have indeed read Wells's list of unofficial suffixes. I remember thinking as a beginner that I would see these suffixes in use, as I see unofficial words in use.

In practice, I see unofficial suffixes incredibly rarely. -iv- is the only one I see with any kind of frequency. I am fairly well-read as Esperanto speakers go (lots of people speak the language for a long time and only ever read a book or two), and I do not believe I have ever seen -iz- used.

Miland (Показать профиль) 14 декабря 2008 г., 15:35:07

I suspect that iz would be more likely to be found in technical or factual literature. Thus orizita is found in this wiki article, and komputilizita in this one, and this article from La Ondo de Esperanto, while elektriza is found in this webpage dealing with Chinese infrastructure

ceigered (Показать профиль) 16 декабря 2008 г., 13:50:08

erinja:Not only is it unofficial, I have never heard it used ridulo.gif

It is actually a borrowing from Ido (as are most unofficial Esperanto suffixes).

Ido has way more suffixes than Esperanto, and they tend to be extremely specific. Esperanto tends to leave things a tad more general, and have the reader figure out the meaning through context.
So does this mean that Ido is slowly remerging with Esperanto? Or just -iz- and other suffixes?

Rogir (Показать профиль) 16 декабря 2008 г., 15:03:49

Or are we just adopting their suffixes out of pity?

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