The hardest thing for me so far about Esperanto is learning when to use the final -n

English doesn't really decline their direct objects (except with pronouns)
Spanish and French don't, the only ones I have studied.
So I am completely lost with the whole object thing. I didn't even know what an object of a sentence was until 8th grade when our grammer teacher had to tell me.

I have trouble finding the object in a sentence...or it takes me a long time or I get it wrong. So I'm lost trying to add the -n

So to the people who know Esperanto generally well, how did you learn to add the -n on the end of objects? Is there a trick to it or does it just take a lot of experience?

[Slightly edited to fix a couple of mistakes I made]

Hi Alex.

I see in your profile that we speak the same national languages (English and Spanish), though we learnt them in opposite orders. It also seems both of us already knew these two languages when we started learning Esperanto.

Since none of our first two languages has this final -n, it is understandable that we may find it strange at first. But believe me, over time you'll use it as automatically as you use "I" and "me" (or in Spanish "yo" and "me" or "a mí"), according to the function of each word in each sentence.

In Esperanto, the final -n has three functions:

1) It points to the direct object of a transitive verb:

La kato manĝas musojn.
Kio manĝas? La kato.
Kion la kato manĝas? Musojn.
Kio musojn manĝas? La kato.

English: The cat eats mice.
Spanish: El gato come ratones.

In English and Spanish the word order may be important, otherwise in some cases the cat could end up being eaten by the mice. On the other hand, the useful -n frees the Esperanto speaker from a fixed word order, and allows him to play at his will with the arrangement of words, for the sake of emphasis or just variety of style.

2) It shows the direction of a movement:

La kato kuris post la muso. (Both the cat and the mouse were running, the former after the latter).
La kato kuris post la muson. (The cat ran from another place towards behind the mouse).

3) It replaces a preposition (as long as clarity is conserved):

La kato dormis la tutan tagon (= dum la tuta tago).
The cat slept (during) all day long.
El gato durmió (durante) todo el día.

Look again at the previous two sentences in Esperanto, English and Spanish. All of them allow for the omission of dum/during/durante. But the final -n in Esperanto makes it clear that a word is "hidden" there.

Since this final use (replacement of a preposition) is optional, you may not use it until you are more at ease with Esperanto.

The second use (direction of a movement) is a refinement which is not so frequently needed, and the preposition "al" can be fine for this purpose in most cases.

Which leaves us with the -n for the direct object, which is the most frequent use of this useful word ending. I would give you this piece of advice: When in doubt, think of the concept you are trying to express in Esperanto and then ask yourself "Kio?" and "Kion?" The answer to this last question will carry the -n in its nouns and adjectives.

Hope this helps. Regards,

Daniel

PS: I like cats.

alexbeard:

I have trouble finding the object in a sentence...or it takes me a long time or I get it wrong. So I'm lost trying to add the -n

So to the people who know Esperanto generally well, how did you learn to add the -n on the end of objects? Is there a trick to it or does it just take a lot of experience?[/CIT

About -n as object, it's easy : you have only to ask a question with "what" or "who".
I give you an example :
"A cat is watching a dog."
Where to put the "-n" in the sentence "Kato rigardis hundo" ?
Ask to yourself : WHAT is watching the cat ? Answer : a dog. The dog is the object. So : "Kato rigardis hundoN".
Some other examples :
"You see me."
WHO does you see ? Me. "Me" is the object.
So : Vi vidas miN.
In the sentence : "I give a cat to Peter."
WHAT does I give to Peter : a cat
TO WHOM does I give a cat ?
I give it to Peter.
Where is the -n ? What is the object ? The cat. Peter is not the object because Peter is not the answer of WHAT but of TO WHOM.
So : "Mi donas katoN al Petro."

But !!! The state verbs have no object. Simply remember, for the beginning, that "esti, sxajni, igxi, farigxi" and all the verbs ending with "-igx-" (not "-ig")never have an object.
Examples :
"I am a man. Mi estas viro"
"She seems very young. Sxi sxajnas tre juna."
"Felix is a cat. Felikso estas kato.
I hope you will find it more easy !

But you have also other uses of -n in esperanto.

I am glad to see that also danielcg likes cats !

Thank you everyone, this has helped.

Does anyone know where I can get good grammar exercises for the -n?
I don't really like the ones on this website...

Lol. I like cats too

Another explanation, covering the same ground (and ONLY covering verbs - the -n as a movement marker is something else entirely).

The accusative -n ending is used for transitive verbs only.

Sentences with transitive verbs have an "Actor" (the subject), and an "Actee" (direct object). They follow the form:

Actor -- > Verb -- > Actee.

The Actor does something to the Actee, and what he/she/it does is what the Verb describes.

The Actee (and any adjectives describing the Actee) ALWAYS gets the -n ending.

The cat eats the rat. The cat is the Actor (it's doing the action of eating). The rat is the Actee (the eating is being done to it). Since the rat is the Actee, it gets the -n ending:

La kato manĝas la ratoN.

-----

Intransitive verbs only have an Actor.

They have the form:

Actor < -- > Verb

Since there's no Actee, there's no -n ending.

I am sleeping. "I" am the Actor, since I'm the one doing the sleeping. I'm not doing it TO anyone/anything. I'm just doing it. The verb relates only to the Subject/Actor (in this case, me). So there is no -n ending involved:

Mi dormas. Mi estas dormanta. (Either sentence is correct, they are simply different ways of saying the same thing.)

-----

ALL verbs that have the -ig suffix are transitive, and follow the first form.

ALL verbs that have the -iĝ suffix are intransitive, and follow the second form.

Verbs that have neither of the above two suffixes have to have their (in)transitivity memorized, as you can't tell from their form alone which they are (although sometimes you can tell from their meaning).

There are a couple of rules of thumb that frequently help beginners. They are not "cure-alls" and they don't work in every case, but they will help you along. Sometimes, having a crutch will help you until you gain further understanding.

Using usual English word order, our sentences go subject-verb-direct object. We have something else called an indirect object. You can google these terms online to find detailed descriptions of the difference; I won't cover it here. Suffice it to say, an indirect object is usually separated from the verb by a preposition. So it's subject-verb-preposition-indirect object.

To over-simplify matters, indirect objects do not have the -n ending in Esperanto, only direct objects.

So here's my rule of thumb, with a couple of adjustments:

When you have noun1-verb-noun2, noun2 needs the -n ending. When you have noun1-verb-preposition-noun2, noun2 does not get the -n ending.

The adjustments to this rule are:
- Direction of motion. Others have covered this. I would not worry about this at the moment. Wait until you have mastered simple use of the -n ending, and then worry about using -n for showing direction of motion. For beginners, I usually suggest sticking to the rule 'no -n after a preposition, ever', and you're more likely to be right.
- Verbs that are intransitive, but still follow the noun-verb-noun pattern. So just remember - don't use -n with esti, farigxi, anything ending with -igx-, sxajni, aspekti. Or any forms of these. Sxajni and aspekti are not as common, so mainly you need to worry about esti and farigxi. Beat it into your head. No -n with esti!

Follow these rules and you will be right 95% of the time. I am a proponent of understanding the grammar behind the speech. But sometimes a rule of thumb is enough to get you speaking with the right grammar, reinforcing the right patterns in your brain. In languages, I like to understand the reasons behind things. But sometimes a rule of thumb is a good way to get you over a hump; a sort of 'learn it now, ask questions later' type of approach.

Regarding -n exercises, I can't think of another site that has them online. But I have an idea for something you could do yourself. Find an Esperanto text. A news story might be a good choice, because the grammar isn't usually complex (like at liberafolio.org). Copy the text into a word processor. Get rid of all instances of -n at the end of a word (you can do this automatically with a "replace" tool, and if you're clever about it, you won't accidentally replace instances in the middle of a word). Print out the story. Now have at it! Read through the story, and put the -n's where you think they belong. Then check your answers against the original. This will also give you practice with vocabulary and reading comprehension, to boot. You can do this with other grammatical elements as well.

You can do something similar with simple reading, although the "answers" are in front of you. Choose an Esperanto text. Read through the text. For each noun, ask yourself, "Why does this word use [or not use] the -n ending?" Force yourself to answer this question before moving on to the next word. If you run into instances where you have no idea why the word uses (or doesn't use) the -n, ask this forum! This will also get you used to reading correct grammar [reinforcing correct patterns in your brain, and eventually making things that are grammatically wrong simply "look wrong" or "sound wrong"], and thinking about the reasons for why we say things the way we do.

erinja:

So here's my rule of thumb, with a couple of adjustments:

When you have noun1-verb-noun2, noun2 needs the -n ending. When you have noun1-verb-preposition-noun2, noun2 does not get the -n ending.

If I may add: When you have noun1-verb-noun2-noun3, then put "al (la)" in front of noun2 and the -n on the end of noun3.

For some reason, I didn't have much trouble with this. I think that it's because I speak German, where the accusative case is very prominent. If a masculine word is a direct object, "der" (masculine "the") becomes "den," and "ein" (masculine and neuter "a" or "an") becomes "einen" (masculine accusative "a" or "an").

I just learned a month or two ago that some German words also take an -n in the accusative case. I thought of the similiarity to Esperanto...until I realized that the -n accusative ending often makes the word indistinguishable from its plural without the aid of articles.

Or bloody, messy context.

You'll learn that if you ever take German. The entire language is basically context, guess work, and blindly running and screaming for help.

*loves German*

Very clear and useful post, as usual, Erinja.

Still you didn't cover a side aspect of this thread that has become of supreme interest: Do you like cats?



Regards,

Daniel

erinja:There are a couple of rules of thumb that frequently help beginners. They are not "cure-alls" and they don't work in every case, but they will help you along. Sometimes, having a crutch will help you until you gain further understanding.