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Morti

by Momomomomo, January 18, 2009

Messages: 19

Language: English

Taciturn_ (User's profile) January 19, 2009, 11:26:57 AM

Does it really mean only that he didn`t die but not that he was not supposed to die with it but just, for instance, to get weak in mind or strength?

Miland (User's profile) January 19, 2009, 1:59:30 PM

Taciturn_:Does it really mean only that he didn`t die but not that he was not supposed to die with it but just, for instance, to get weak in mind or strength?
I think you are right. That is, I believe it means that they tried to kill him, but were unsuccessful.

erinja (User's profile) January 19, 2009, 3:30:51 PM

To me, it is meaningful that the original English chooses the wording 'he wouldn't die' rather than 'he didn't die'. Because it would still be perfectly grammatical to day 'We tried to poison him, but he didn't die'.

In my opinion, the use of "wouldn't" implies that the person being poisoned willed himself not to die, that he is resisting dying. In a figurative sense, of course.

In that case, I would use "li rifuzis morti" in Esperanto; as someone already suggested, "refuse" gives this meaning of resistance. To me, that is a better way to get across the original English meaning, rather than the relatively neutral statement "he didn't die".

Momomomomo (User's profile) January 19, 2009, 10:58:22 PM

Well dang, you stay offline for one day and your post goes completely off topic. Thanks for clearing up that confusion, it makes much more sense to think of morta as a more general term.
As for the new line of topic concerning "would not die" I'd say go with "rifuzis morti" as to me the conditional sense makes it seem like the guy couldn't have died from the poison anyway. You could almost rearrange it into "if you poisoned him, he would not die", which isn't what you're trying to say.

nshepperd (User's profile) January 20, 2009, 12:09:31 AM

"Would not die" seems like an obscure conditional to me actually. Like when we say "I would never do that!" meaning "Not if anything happened would I do that!" Basically the condition (is that what it's called?) "anything" is omitted, to express resolve/will.

Of course, that doesn't mean we should do that in esperanto, and I think rifuzis morti is definitely more logical and clear.

zixhwizs (User's profile) January 20, 2009, 4:12:20 PM

Refuzis morti is in line with the meaning I had intended. Thanks for the help!

jchthys (User's profile) February 11, 2009, 8:19:47 PM

I think (and and corroborated by a couple older sources) that the lernu! dictionary is wrong, or at least different from the traditional understanding of things.

[LISTO]
Senviva means "dead".
Senvivi means "to be dead".
Senvivo means "death" (i.e. the state of being dead).[/list][LISTO]
Morto means "death" (i.e. passing from a state of life into a state of being dead).
Morti means "to die".
Morta means "mortal" or "having to do with death".[/list]I think that makes a little more sense, and I hope it clears things up a bit.

henma (User's profile) February 12, 2009, 12:55:44 AM

jchthys:I think (and and corroborated by a couple older sources) that the lernu! dictionary is wrong, or at least different from the traditional understanding of things.

[LISTO]
Senviva means "dead".
Senvivi means "to be dead".
Senvivo means "death" (i.e. the state of being dead).[/list][LISTO]
Morto means "death" (i.e. passing from a state of life into a state of being dead).
Morti means "to die".
Morta means "mortal" or "having to do with death".[/list]I think that makes a little more sense, and I hope it clears things up a bit.
Dankon... Mi ĵus volis klarigi tion...

I just wanted to make clear that morta does NOT mean DEAD... it means "related to death"... I don't know if there is a word in English that means exactly that... In Spanish the adjective "funebre" has a close meaning.

By the way, I also think that mortigi is a strange word, because it should mean "to make XXX 'related to death'", instead of "kill XXX", don't you think? okulumo.gif

But the word already has its meaning...

Amike,

Daniel.

jchthys (User's profile) February 12, 2009, 1:11:03 AM

henma:By the way, I also think that mortigi is a strange word, because it should mean "to make XXX 'related to death'", instead of "kill XXX", don't you think? okulumo.gif

But the word already has its meaning...
That meaning wouldn't make too much sense; and as someone already mentioned, mort- is a verb root.

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