پستها: 31
زبان: English
Miland (نمایش مشخصات) 12 مارس 2009، 20:48:56
Tio is used for less clearly defined things. For example, 'I listened to music and I liked that' is Mi auskultis muzikon kaj mi ŝatis tion, if you are talking about the whole experience, not just the specific piece.
Another example:
Jano: 'Shall we go to the cafe later?' Ĉu ni iru al la kafejo poste?
Ana: 'Yes, I would like that.' Jes, mi ŝatus tion.
Tia means 'that kind'. So 'I don't like that sort of music' is Mi ne ŝatas tian muzikon.
darkweasel (نمایش مشخصات) 13 مارس 2009، 14:09:28
Or in other words: Are they normal adjectives or something else?
Novico Dektri (نمایش مشخصات) 13 مارس 2009، 14:38:30
darkweasel:And which of "tiu" and "tia" can be placed both before and after a noun? Both, none, only tia, only tiu?Hm. An interesting question. Gramatically speaking, I'm not entirely sure whether 'tiu' can be placed after a noun, but I have certainly never hear it used that way by another Esperantist. Generally it either stands alone...
Or in other words: Are they normal adjectives or something else?
"Kiu el la smokingoj plej tauxgus por mia baldauxa geedzigxo?"
"Nu, tiu, kiun vi elektis aspektas suficxe bone, tamen tiu cxi estus eble pli eleganta."
... and is best translated as 'that one', or it comes before the noun.
"Cxu vere tiu smokingo? La kolumo enormas!"
'Tia', conversely, seems to function like a normal adjective and can be placed before or after a noun according to preference.
"Gxenerale mi evitas enmiksigxi en aferojn tiajn."
"Kia via opinio estas rilate Esperanton?... Tiaj lingvoj min nauxzas!"
"Kia patro, tia filo."
Bondezirojn,
Benjameno
Miland (نمایش مشخصات) 13 مارس 2009، 14:47:55
darkweasel:And which of "tiu" and "tia" can be placed both before and after a noun? Both, none, only tia, only tiu? Or in other words: Are they normal adjectives or something else?Both could be placed after a noun in theory, but that would not necessarily be a helpful way of writing. I suggest that you place both before, to be on the safe side, till you are sure that you know what you're doing.
They qualify nouns and have to agree with the number and case of the nouns they qualify, so you could call them 'demonstrative adjectives' if you like. But I'm not sure that we need such terminology borrowed from the grammar of other languages. In Esperanto we have tabelvortoj or 'correlatives' which include these.
I suggest that you call them 'correlatives'!
henma (نمایش مشخصات) 13 مارس 2009، 14:51:08
darkweasel:And which of "tiu" and "tia" can be placed both before and after a noun? Both, none, only tia, only tiu?Tiu can be seen as an adjective when used before a noun (in Spanish it's equivalent to "ese/esa" which we classify as "adjetivos demostrativos"). In English this is equivalent to that when used with a noun (tiu libro == that book)
Or in other words: Are they normal adjectives or something else?
Tiu can also be used as a pronoun, when replacing a noun, but in that case it refers to people, not things: tiu estas sinjoro Smith, but not tiu estas libro...
When used alone, some times it can mean that one: mi preferas tiun ĉí, ne tiun. In this case, it is the same as when used with a noun, but omitting the noun, because it is already known (because of context).
I think using tia instead of tiu in the sense of that is a mistake. Tia libro means "that kind of book", or maybe "such a book", not "that book".
Amike,
Daniel.
I hope I didn't make many mistakes with my English.
darkweasel (نمایش مشخصات) 15 مارس 2009، 19:49:29
Miland (نمایش مشخصات) 15 مارس 2009، 22:10:55
darkweasel:Ne dankinde!
(Trans: No problem).
D. Esperado (نمایش مشخصات) 21 مارس 2009، 0:26:39
Rogir:I started learning Esperanto about 8 months ago, and I can type it fluently now. Also, I just started Spanish lessons and I seem to be one of the best in class without doing very much, so perhaps my Esperanto knowledge is helping me there.i totally agree. i (unfortunatly bragging) am the best at french in my class by far and quite good at german. maybe because of esperanto, maybe because i try, maybe both. esperanto faras bonon por ĉiu.
ceigered (نمایش مشخصات) 21 مارس 2009، 3:30:25
D. Esperado:i (unfortunatly bragging) am the best at french in my class by far and quite good at german. maybe because of esperanto, maybe because i try, maybe both. esperanto faras bonon por ĉiu.Could also be confidence because of Esperanto's ease. Then again, I started learning (as in put effort into) Russian first which is hard, but it didn't effect me much.
darkweasel (نمایش مشخصات) 21 مارس 2009، 7:56:28
The downside is that, in French, I'm starting to expect similar regularity in grammar, so that I once built "vitement" as an adverb to "vite" (quick), although "vite" is already an adverb.