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Mia Unua Fadeno

de Abras, 4 martie 2009

Contribuții/Mesaje: 29

Limbă: English

Miland (Arată profil) 12 martie 2009, 20:48:56

Tiu and tio can both be translated as 'that', but they are used in different ways. Tiu is used for clearly defined individual things. So it can mean 'that one'. Thus 'I like that house' would be Mi ŝatas tiun domon. If you are in a shop you might point to an specific item and say Mi ŝatas tiun.

Tio is used for less clearly defined things. For example, 'I listened to music and I liked that' is Mi auskultis muzikon kaj mi ŝatis tion, if you are talking about the whole experience, not just the specific piece.
Another example:
Jano: 'Shall we go to the cafe later?' Ĉu ni iru al la kafejo poste?
Ana: 'Yes, I would like that.' Jes, mi ŝatus tion.

Tia means 'that kind'. So 'I don't like that sort of music' is Mi ne ŝatas tian muzikon.

darkweasel (Arată profil) 13 martie 2009, 14:09:28

And which of "tiu" and "tia" can be placed both before and after a noun? Both, none, only tia, only tiu?

Or in other words: Are they normal adjectives or something else?

Miland (Arată profil) 13 martie 2009, 14:47:55

darkweasel:And which of "tiu" and "tia" can be placed both before and after a noun? Both, none, only tia, only tiu? Or in other words: Are they normal adjectives or something else?
Both could be placed after a noun in theory, but that would not necessarily be a helpful way of writing. I suggest that you place both before, to be on the safe side, till you are sure that you know what you're doing.

They qualify nouns and have to agree with the number and case of the nouns they qualify, so you could call them 'demonstrative adjectives' if you like. But I'm not sure that we need such terminology borrowed from the grammar of other languages. In Esperanto we have tabelvortoj or 'correlatives' which include these.

I suggest that you call them 'correlatives'!

henma (Arată profil) 13 martie 2009, 14:51:08

darkweasel:And which of "tiu" and "tia" can be placed both before and after a noun? Both, none, only tia, only tiu?

Or in other words: Are they normal adjectives or something else?
Tiu can be seen as an adjective when used before a noun (in Spanish it's equivalent to "ese/esa" which we classify as "adjetivos demostrativos"). In English this is equivalent to that when used with a noun (tiu libro == that book)

Tiu can also be used as a pronoun, when replacing a noun, but in that case it refers to people, not things: tiu estas sinjoro Smith, but not tiu estas libro...

When used alone, some times it can mean that one: mi preferas tiun ĉí, ne tiun. In this case, it is the same as when used with a noun, but omitting the noun, because it is already known (because of context).

I think using tia instead of tiu in the sense of that is a mistake. Tia libro means "that kind of book", or maybe "such a book", not "that book".

Amike,

Daniel.

I hope I didn't make many mistakes with my English.

darkweasel (Arată profil) 15 martie 2009, 19:49:29

Thank you, Miland.

Miland (Arată profil) 15 martie 2009, 22:10:55

darkweasel:
Ne dankinde! rideto.gif

(Trans: No problem).

ceigered (Arată profil) 21 martie 2009, 03:30:25

D. Esperado:i (unfortunatly bragging) am the best at french in my class by far and quite good at german. maybe because of esperanto, maybe because i try, maybe both. esperanto faras bonon por ĉiu.
Could also be confidence because of Esperanto's ease. Then again, I started learning (as in put effort into) Russian first which is hard, but it didn't effect me much.

darkweasel (Arată profil) 21 martie 2009, 07:56:28

Same for me in Latin - Esperanto helps me remember vocabulary like "sed", "tamen" "quamquam" (kvankam) etc.

The downside is that, in French, I'm starting to expect similar regularity in grammar, so that I once built "vitement" as an adverb to "vite" (quick), although "vite" is already an adverb.

Abras (Arată profil) 29 martie 2009, 04:47:44

Mi vivas!

I don't have much time to talk but I just thought I'd drop in to let you know that I am still breathing and that I am still studying away.

I am almost "done" with the book Beginner's Esperanto by J.F. Conroy. It is a good, though not perfect book with which to learn the basics of Esperanto. It and this site make a great combination. I recommend the duo to fellow beginners.

Also, I started reading Gerda Malaperis yesterday. I'm not 100% sure if I'll be able to read it all without hitting a major wall, but we'll see. At worse I'll just fall back on learning more grammar and vocabulary words.

I've also been trying to write a bit in Esperanto everyday for a few days now. Hopefully that will help to drastically improve my active understanding of the language. And I might start a little blog to post them in.

I should have written this in Esperanto, but I'm tired and pressed for time right now. Maybe later. lango.gif

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