geamikoj vs amikoj in 'La puzlo Esperanto'
kelle poolt 1Guy1, 5. märts 2009
Postitused: 10
Keel: English
1Guy1 (Näita profiili) 5. märts 2009 16:23.00
I am working through 'La Puzlo Esperanto' and am confused - all help appreciated!
I was asked to put My friends of both genders and your parents are not friends. into Esperanto.
I put in Miaj geamikoj kaj viaj gepatroj ne estas geamikoj.
but this was marked wrong, stating that the last word should be amikoj. I am confused as the last word does seem to refer to the idea of friends of both genders.
thanks
Guy
darkweasel (Näita profiili) 5. märts 2009 16:30.53
Miland (Näita profiili) 5. märts 2009 17:09.02
We have, in PMEG:
Se vorto per si mem estas neŭtra, oni ne bezonas aldoni GE, krom se oni volas aparte emfazi, ke ambaŭ seksoj ĉeestas. Normale oni diru simple lernantoj, samideanoj, doktoroj kaj homoj.
I translate:
"If a word by itself is neutral, we need not add GE, unless we wish to specially emphasize that both genders are present. Normally we say simply 'learners', 'Esperantists', 'doctors' and 'people'."
russ (Näita profiili) 6. märts 2009 8:02.44
darkweasel (Näita profiili) 6. märts 2009 13:40.26
Miland (Näita profiili) 6. märts 2009 14:03.53
darkweasel:Can "gepatroj" be used in the singular ("gepatro")?Normally not, because the basic meaning of ge assumes the presence of both genders at once, but it has been used in this way, for situations where someone wishes to emphasize that the gender is indeterminate. Like other unofficial innovations, time will reveal whether it becomes accepted through usage. You will find a discussion of the issue in PMEG.
darkweasel (Näita profiili) 6. märts 2009 18:45.57
BTW: German has a very similar problem. "Eltern" means parents, but a singular form doesn't exist. To form one, most frequently "Elternteil" (literally "parents part") is used. Maybe Esperanto could also use "gepatrojero"? No, not really, no one who doesn't speak German will understand this.
Miland (Näita profiili) 6. märts 2009 19:06.12
darkweasel:Hm. So, it isn't literally wrong?I would say that strictly it is wrong, in that ge is intended to mean both genders together, not one (undetermined) of them; see the entry "ge" in the Fundamenta Vortaro.
Nevertheless, if ge goes on being used in an unorthodox sense, in time it will be liable to become accepted.
russ (Näita profiili) 7. märts 2009 7:24.33
1. one's interpretation of Esperanto's rules and the Fundamento
2. one's national language/cultural background (many languages don't have a sex-neutral word like English's "parent", so they simply don't feel the need for such a word as English speakers do)
3. one's thoughts about sexism in language.
etc.
nshepperd (Näita profiili) 8. märts 2009 11:40.25