Meldinger: 17
Språk: English
LilzGold (Å vise profilen) 2009 3 15 01:13:50
)So here's three questions that are puzzling to me. Thanks if you're able to help me out by answering them; or even one.
1)I can't roll my r's. Is rolling r's vital with Esperanto?
2)What is the difference between s and c?
3)And also what is the differences beween the two h's? I can slightly pick it up, but not well enough to mimic it
Filanator (Å vise profilen) 2009 3 15 01:32:58
1) It's not vital, but it's possible to learn how to and it sounds better (if you ask me) if you do. But remember that many famous Esperantists didn't roll their rs.
2) s is the same as english, c sounds like 'ts'.
3) I make ĥ by rolling my h's, I guess (it's hard to explain). Try that.
henma (Å vise profilen) 2009 3 15 02:05:58
LilzGold:I'm new as of today and already need help! (well, that's what us newbies are forOk, you are right
I'll try, as far as I can, as I don't speak English as my first language.
LilzGold:1)I can't roll my r's. Is rolling r's vital with Esperanto?I think it's not that important, as long as you pronounce it an it's recognizable as an r.
It doesn't have to be too strong, only don't omit it (as in English final r) nor replace it with a flat (though, I think a flat can sound better than a too forced rolled r).
LilzGold:2)What is the difference between s and c?Ok, c is like a ts.
Think first in the difference between sh and ch (sheet v/s cheat, for instance). Do you notice something like a t at the beginning of cheat? There's something similar in the sound of c.
Think also in the zz of pizza.
LilzGold:3)And also what is the differences beween the two h's? I can slightly pick it up, but not well enough to mimic itIt's really difficult for English speakers
.h is like English h.
ĥ is like Spanish j or German ch (the strong one).
It's an aspirated sound, like h, but more in the back part of the mouth. Try to pronounce k or g, but instead, do the h sound, without moving the tongue from the k/g position.
I know, the explanation is not simple, but I hope it helps.
Amike,
Daniel.
69UM24OSU12 (Å vise profilen) 2009 3 15 04:34:47
LilzGold:One piece of advice that really helped me with the rolling r: It becomes really difficult if you try to pronounce the r and make the trill at the same time. Focus only on the trill and NOT on pronouncing the r-sound. The trill by nature contains the r-sound.
1)I can't roll my r's. Is rolling r's vital with Esperanto?
Miland (Å vise profilen) 2009 3 15 10:14:54
LilzGold:1)I can't roll my r's. Is rolling r's vital with Esperanto?1) Try saying 'r' the way Scottish people do.
2)What is the difference between s and c?
3)And also what is the differences beween the two h's? I can slightly pick it up, but not well enough to mimic it
2) Daniel's pizza is a very good example of how the Esperanto c ('tso') is pronounced.
3) 'ĥ' is like the 'ch' in the Scottish 'loch' or the German 'reich'.
ceigered (Å vise profilen) 2009 3 15 11:55:58
LilzGold:1)I can't roll my r's. Is rolling r's vital with Esperanto?Hey LilzGold, here's what I think:
2)What is the difference between s and c?
3)And also what is the differences beween the two h's? I can slightly pick it up, but not well enough to mimic it
1) Rolling 'R's isn't too important, but it's like the standard at the moment so try and learn it. As long as you pronounce an 'R' in all positions you should be fine. If you are having problems rolling it after 't' or 'd' (or 's'/'l' etc) just leave a minute gap in between (so that it doesn't sound like an extra vowel, but so you are not cramming the consonants together - Japanese people do this well IMHO). But other people use guttural 'R's, tapping 'r's (like in Spanish/Japanese, very similar to a roll), and English Rs.
Also, in regards to what henma said, omitting 'r's is bad because it's hard to understand in fast speech or for those unfamiliar with the phenomenon. For example, if you were talking to a highland scotsman after hearing only NZ accents your entire life, you would have great trouble understanding them. However, that said, if you came from glasgow it wouldn't be as hard to understand them. Same thing applies in Esperanto with the 'r' omitting. So if I said "Tiu ĉi estas por mia art-serĉado" like an Australian (e.g. omitting the underlined Rs) to a NZlander, it would sound understandable in most cases, but to a Russian it would be like "Tiu ĉi estas po mia aatseaĉado" or something crazy like that.
Sorry, didn't meant to write an essay on that
(but I seriously think the esperanto 'R' deserves some research etc, it would be quite interesting to see if "all the 'r's of the world" could be used in harmony).2)S = s, C = ts. "scienco" = Stsientso. Don't be surprised if it feels long or like theres an unnatural pause between the 'S's.
3) Put the back of your tongue up to the back of the roof of your mouth, and breath through it, and there's your 'ĥ' sound. It sounds like a run-off from the hard 'k' in English in words like 'Kick'.
Ok hope that helps!
erinja (Å vise profilen) 2009 3 15 16:18:13
Regarding the letter ĥ - when you eat something that tastes terrible, do you say "blecch!"? How about "Yecch!"? Blecch would be written as "bleĥ" in Esperanto; it's a great model of how to pronounce ĥ. Even people who think that can't pronounce ĥ have likely said "blech!" at least one time in their lives.
Zafur (Å vise profilen) 2009 3 15 16:45:52
Miland (Å vise profilen) 2009 3 15 17:56:25
darkweasel (Å vise profilen) 2009 3 15 18:51:41
And yet, for me as a German speaker, "teĥniko" is much more natural than "tekniko"
. But on the other hand, there are other tongue-twisters for me, like eŭ or the difference between ŝ/ĵ, ĉ/ĝ, s/z - where I have to pay very close attention! Also, ĥ at the beginning of a word is unnatural even for me (though maybe not for speakers of other German dialects!)