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usage of "fari"

de robinast, 2009-julio-31

Mesaĝoj: 11

Lingvo: English

robinast (Montri la profilon) 2009-julio-31 06:39:17

jchthys:...Mi ja vidis ĝin. Sed oni ja povas diri Ĉu vi ja faras?
Is this an official use of "fari" or not? The citation is from a thread in Esperanto - Kial vi komencis lerni Esperanton?. I looked for the usage of "fari" in PMEG as well as Reta Vortaro - but still did not figure it out...

mnlg (Montri la profilon) 2009-julio-31 07:35:40

You can use 'fari' without an object, if the object is otherwise understood and you would repeat it. This is valid for many other verbs as well.

- Mi ne volis fari ĉion el nulo, sed mi ne trovis bonan, jam pretan, solvon.

- Do vi ja faris [ĉion el nulo].

- Jes.

robinast (Montri la profilon) 2009-julio-31 07:45:39

mnlg:You can use 'fari' without an object, if the object is otherwise understood and you would repeat it. This is valid for many other verbs as well.

- Mi ne volis fari ĉion el nulo, sed mi ne trovis bonan, jam pretan, solvon.

- Do vi ja faris [ĉion el nulo].

- Jes.
Yes, this I understand. But what if "fari" replaces an another verb like in the example of Jchthys (vidis/faras)?

mnlg (Montri la profilon) 2009-julio-31 07:58:27

Oh. Now I get what you mean; my apologies. No, that's not admissible, AFAIK. Just leave the verb out:

- Mi sukcesas vidi la maron de ĉi tie. Ĉu vi?

robinast (Montri la profilon) 2009-julio-31 09:38:07

Thanks, Mnlg! But I have more to ask. rido.gif What about the following sentence: "Li trinkis unu bieron kaj jam faras ĝin ree." ("faras ĝin" is meant to replace "trinkis unu bieron" here)?

mnlg (Montri la profilon) 2009-julio-31 10:15:29

I'd say "faras tion". Otherwise it seems he has drunk a beer, but now he's making that same beer back, and I don't want to know how okulumo.gif

Seriously, "Li trinkis unu bieron, kaj jam li denove faras tion" is acceptable. But even simplier: "... kaj nun duan"

"ĝi" would not be appropriate because "ĝi" stands for nouns; to stand for whole sentences, or concepts, you need "tio". See the difference:

Mi trinkas bieron kaj mi ŝatas ĝin (mi ŝatas la bieron)

Mi trinkas bieron kaj mi ŝatas tion (mi ŝatas trinki bierojn)

jchthys (Montri la profilon) 2009-julio-31 12:38:14

I suppose that you’d usually repeat the verb instead of replacing it with fari. But I guess the faras usage (such as in the beer sentence) is acceptable too. I assume that the tion could be ellipsized (left out)—what do you think?

mnlg (Montri la profilon) 2009-julio-31 15:40:10

jchthys, if you were to say:

"Li trinkis bieron, kaj nun li faras denove"

I might probably understand what you mean (he is drinking another beer), but my first reaction would be to wait for the object of 'faras'.

Remembering my previous conversations, I have to admit that I do not recall any particular case of ellipsis of 'tion' in such a way. However I do not remember it being disallowed either.

robinast (Montri la profilon) 2009-julio-31 16:51:50

mnlg:I'd say "faras tion". Otherwise it seems he has drunk a beer, but now he's making that same beer back, and I don't want to know how okulumo.gif
Oh yes, neither do I! lango.gif

I try to remember the difference between the usage of "ĝi" and "tio" in similar situations, thanks!

darkweasel (Montri la profilon) 2009-aŭgusto-01 19:30:49

On IRC, I discovered an interesting alternative to this. "Mi ne fumas, nek -is" = I don't smoke, neither did I (ever smoke). (Don't try this at home, it's inofficial =])

Just for completion rido.gif

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