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usage of "fari"

robinast :lta, 31. heinäkuuta 2009

Viestejä: 11

Kieli: English

robinast (Näytä profiilli) 31. heinäkuuta 2009 6.39.17

jchthys:...Mi ja vidis ĝin. Sed oni ja povas diri Ĉu vi ja faras?
Is this an official use of "fari" or not? The citation is from a thread in Esperanto - Kial vi komencis lerni Esperanton?. I looked for the usage of "fari" in PMEG as well as Reta Vortaro - but still did not figure it out...

mnlg (Näytä profiilli) 31. heinäkuuta 2009 7.35.40

You can use 'fari' without an object, if the object is otherwise understood and you would repeat it. This is valid for many other verbs as well.

- Mi ne volis fari ĉion el nulo, sed mi ne trovis bonan, jam pretan, solvon.

- Do vi ja faris [ĉion el nulo].

- Jes.

robinast (Näytä profiilli) 31. heinäkuuta 2009 7.45.39

mnlg:You can use 'fari' without an object, if the object is otherwise understood and you would repeat it. This is valid for many other verbs as well.

- Mi ne volis fari ĉion el nulo, sed mi ne trovis bonan, jam pretan, solvon.

- Do vi ja faris [ĉion el nulo].

- Jes.
Yes, this I understand. But what if "fari" replaces an another verb like in the example of Jchthys (vidis/faras)?

mnlg (Näytä profiilli) 31. heinäkuuta 2009 7.58.27

Oh. Now I get what you mean; my apologies. No, that's not admissible, AFAIK. Just leave the verb out:

- Mi sukcesas vidi la maron de ĉi tie. Ĉu vi?

robinast (Näytä profiilli) 31. heinäkuuta 2009 9.38.07

Thanks, Mnlg! But I have more to ask. rido.gif What about the following sentence: "Li trinkis unu bieron kaj jam faras ĝin ree." ("faras ĝin" is meant to replace "trinkis unu bieron" here)?

mnlg (Näytä profiilli) 31. heinäkuuta 2009 10.15.29

I'd say "faras tion". Otherwise it seems he has drunk a beer, but now he's making that same beer back, and I don't want to know how okulumo.gif

Seriously, "Li trinkis unu bieron, kaj jam li denove faras tion" is acceptable. But even simplier: "... kaj nun duan"

"ĝi" would not be appropriate because "ĝi" stands for nouns; to stand for whole sentences, or concepts, you need "tio". See the difference:

Mi trinkas bieron kaj mi ŝatas ĝin (mi ŝatas la bieron)

Mi trinkas bieron kaj mi ŝatas tion (mi ŝatas trinki bierojn)

jchthys (Näytä profiilli) 31. heinäkuuta 2009 12.38.14

I suppose that you’d usually repeat the verb instead of replacing it with fari. But I guess the faras usage (such as in the beer sentence) is acceptable too. I assume that the tion could be ellipsized (left out)—what do you think?

mnlg (Näytä profiilli) 31. heinäkuuta 2009 15.40.10

jchthys, if you were to say:

"Li trinkis bieron, kaj nun li faras denove"

I might probably understand what you mean (he is drinking another beer), but my first reaction would be to wait for the object of 'faras'.

Remembering my previous conversations, I have to admit that I do not recall any particular case of ellipsis of 'tion' in such a way. However I do not remember it being disallowed either.

robinast (Näytä profiilli) 31. heinäkuuta 2009 16.51.50

mnlg:I'd say "faras tion". Otherwise it seems he has drunk a beer, but now he's making that same beer back, and I don't want to know how okulumo.gif
Oh yes, neither do I! lango.gif

I try to remember the difference between the usage of "ĝi" and "tio" in similar situations, thanks!

darkweasel (Näytä profiilli) 1. elokuuta 2009 19.30.49

On IRC, I discovered an interesting alternative to this. "Mi ne fumas, nek -is" = I don't smoke, neither did I (ever smoke). (Don't try this at home, it's inofficial =])

Just for completion rido.gif

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