Ujumbe: 9
Lugha: English
ailebol (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 22 Agosti 2009 4:46:53 alasiri
Rogir (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 22 Agosti 2009 6:13:18 alasiri
Miland (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 22 Agosti 2009 6:55:53 alasiri
Disde is an uncommon variant of de. We can use disde thus: 'We cannot distinguish his sheep from ours'. Ni ne povas distingi liajn ŝafojn disde la niaj. However Butler's dictionary suggests that this be used sparingly and that it could be better put distingi inter A kaj B. PIV 2005 gives an example of disde being used after a passive participle where de is not intended: 'the child taken away from the mother', la infano forprenita disde la patrino. (i.e. taken away from, not by). This example is also given in PMEG (last para). Also PMEG (para after the first box) gives an example of disde being used in the sense of for de.
Pharoah (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 23 Agosti 2009 6:29:11 asubuhi
"Desde el incidento en la acensor, nadie quería estar demasiado cercano al Andres."
"Since the incident in the elevator, nobody wanted to be too close to Andres."
Just something to think about. Not sure if it's relevant or not.
ceigered (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 23 Agosti 2009 8:39:15 asubuhi
I'd understand you if you said 'Mi estas el/Mi venas el/Mi estas de la lando...', regardless of whether it was good or bad esperanto, but if you said 'disde' I'd be trying to figure out what you're talking about.
tommjames (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 23 Agosti 2009 10:53:28 asubuhi
Miland:However Butler's dictionary suggests that this be used sparinglyDid they give any rationalle for that, apart from using inter?
Miland (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 23 Agosti 2009 1:34:51 alasiri
tommjames:Did they give any rationalle for that, apart from using inter?The entry only says, before giving examples:
"Disde (occasional variant of de) shd be used, if at all, only to avoid ambiguity."
However Kalocsay and Waringhien's Plena Analiza Gramatiko (remark following para 179) gives a list of verbs after whose passive participles disde might be appropriate to avoid confusion: preni, rabi, savi, aĉeti, apartigi and senigi, where it appears to me that the meaning of the preposition is 'from' rather than 'by'.
tommjames (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 23 Agosti 2009 2:06:02 alasiri
Miland:The entry only says, before giving examples: "Disde (occasional variant of de) shd be used, if at all, only to avoid ambiguity."Cool. The reason I ask is I like to make use of disde myself for exactly that reason (avoiding ambiguity). I find it useful especially with the passive participles, as well as disambiguating the genetive case in general. There are quite a few results for disde in Tekstaro that disambiguate in a way that would be slightly difficult or unwieldy with other prepositions/adverbs such as inter, for, aparte etc.
erinja (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 23 Agosti 2009 3:04:45 alasiri
According to PMEG, "el" doesn't only have the sense of moving from one place to another; it can also show origin or source. So "Mi estas el Usono" means that you come from the US originally. It doesn't mean that you just came from there, physically. Although if you want to show that you just physically came from there, it is easy to add this with context and/or additional words ("Mi venis el Usono hieraux", "Mi venis el Germanio kaj eniris Francion", etc)
"de" can also show origin, so it isn't to say that "el" is the only correct choice. Only, that "de" and "el" are equally correct in the context of where you come from.