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Translating names to Esperanto

de ljbookworm, 2009-oktobro-12

Mesaĝoj: 102

Lingvo: English

trojo (Montri la profilon) 2010-februaro-11 22:57:27

blahface:What happens if a name is the object of a sentence? How is it altered? For example, is the following correct?

Fred vidas Bill.

Or would you have to add -on like this

Fred vidas Billon.

If first is correct, then how do you know for sure who is doing the action?
You add -on in that case. See for example Zamenhof's translation of the Bible, where this is done repeatedly, e.g. Genesis 3:8-9...

"Kaj ili aŭdis la voĉon de Dio la Eternulo, kiu marŝis en la ĝardeno dum la malvarmeto de la tago; kaj Adam kaj lia edzino kaŝiĝis de Dio la Eternulo inter la arboj de la ĝardeno. Kaj Dio la Eternulo vokis Adamon, kaj diris al li: Kie vi estas?"

I quote Dr. Z because his style should be considered normative.

Some may object to having their names inflected like that, but it is the same principle at work when we inflect foreign names for the possessive in English, e.g. Mohammed's or Wei Jin's or whatever. Obviously the "apostrophe-S" affix doesn't exist in the source languages of those names, but that doesn't stop us from adding it in English.

In my case, my name fits well into Esperanto. The Esperanto name for the ancient city of Troy is Trojo, so it both looks and sounds pretty close to the original version, and is pretty widely-known (even if not necessarily as a personal name). Also as an added bonus, J and O are the first two letters of my last name, so to an English-speaker, "Trojo" looks like a portmanteau of my first and last names.

Oŝo-Jabe (Montri la profilon) 2010-februaro-12 01:49:12

trojo:
blahface:Or would you have to add -on like this

Fred vidas Billon.
You add -on in that case. See for example Zamenhof's translation of the Bible, where this is done repeatedly,

I quote Dr. Z because his style should be considered normative.
Zamenhof actually used two systems that I can discern. His fully-Esperanto system, and the partially-Esperanto system.

In the Bible you get things like:
Noa-Noan
Adam-Adamon
Rabŝake-Rabŝaken

In the Fables of Andersen and La Batalo de l' Vivo (Nowadays, - is more common than '):
Thomas-Thomas'on
Mary-Mary'n
Grace-Grace'n (This one's odd.)
Clemency-Clemency'n

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2010-februaro-12 02:06:24

What Trojo says is correct, and it's one way of handling this situation. However, it is also common simply not to use the -n in the case of foreign names.

In that case, "Fred vidas Bill" would be rendered just like that. You would know from word order that Fred is the subject and Bill is the object. Esperanto has flexible word order, but in cases of doubt, subject-verb-object is pretty much the default. Presumably context would also give some information.

The PMEG has a discussion of this topic, for those of you who want to read about it in Esperanto, and see some examples of Trojo's method, and also the method of not using -n at all. This is the link.

JenniferatLernu (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-10 00:42:06

My name before I got married was:
Jennifer Kuras (or shortened, Jen Kuras)

Those are both Esperanto words which could cause confusion.

Kuri = to run, Jen = here is, look, there

Jennifer Kuras = Jennifer is running

Is 'someone' trying to suggest I should take up jogging again? okulumo.gif

Jen Kuras = look running or there is running

Anyway I'm sure I'll get used to it, but for now it is a bit odd for me doing the Bildoj kaj demandoj, #21 as it's all about Kuras.

Estu bone,
Jennifer
p.s. I think I'll just leave my first name as it is although if people want a shortform, Jena or Gxena is okay.

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-10 01:41:12

Please choose "Jena" and not "Ĝena" as an Esperanto version of your name. "Ĝena" means "annoying" in Esperanto!

Jenjo or Ĝenjo would also be possibilities (the -nj- is a female nickname suffix)

SilverAu (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-10 03:07:31

My name is Aurora. I don't really like the idea of translating names, but I don't mind the idea of them varying in pronunciation.

So if I was ever speaking to another Esperanto-speaker, I'd probably ask them to call me Aurora, pronounced "A-u-RO-ra."

But I have no idea if this is standard. ._.

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-10 10:18:12

Why not just add one more accent to your name - Aŭrora - and have it come out as "ow-RO-ra", which is closer to the English pronunciation (and also easier to say than pronouncing the a and u separately?)

LyzTyphone (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-10 10:18:23

SilverAu:My name is Aurora. I don't really like the idea of translating names, but I don't mind the idea of them varying in pronunciation.

So if I was ever speaking to another Esperanto-speaker, I'd probably ask them to call me Aurora, pronounced "A-u-RO-ra."

But I have no idea if this is standard. ._.
It's not. "Standard", if I am to assign one, will be Aŭrora　/aw-RO-ra/ or Aŭroro.

But unless it's an aliases you intend to use inside Esperanto community, or one to showcase your Esperantist identity, don't let the "standard" get into your own naming. It's after all a symbol of individuality, so don't let anything get in the way.

JenniferatLernu (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-10 13:45:39

erinja:Please choose "Jena" and not "Ĝena" as an Esperanto version of your name. "Ĝena" means "annoying" in Esperanto!

Jenjo or Ĝenjo would also be possibilities (the -nj- is a female nickname suffix)
Oh wow! That's so funny -- thanks for letting me know.

Be well,
Jennifer/Jena

chestergirl (Montri la profilon) 2010-septembro-10 15:13:01

My name's Lauren, and when people from other countries ask what to call me, I normally say Laura since my name is somewhat masculine sounding (to me that is).

So if I was to translate mine it could be Laŭreno or something like that...still sounds like a guy's name...

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