Meldinger: 21
Språk: English
ceigered (Å vise profilen) 2009 12 30 17:04:40
Miland:Cheers Miland - I'm mostly meaning "eject" as in "Fek.....unda my Esperantuja F-14 (Fodekkvar) just got hit by a missile and I'm looking for my eject lever" (I'm guessing that's "elĵeti"? otherwise whatever eject is in that sense might work too for Hispanio's question, there's always something rattling about being ejected, be it from a highly damaged plane or a chatroom).ceigered:what does "eject" translate to in EO?Wells and Butler both have elĵeti, which I would recommend here. Benson also has elpeli which is fine if you are talking about expulsion in the sense of 'driving out', as in La alianco elpelis la militfortojn de Sadam el Kuvajto, "The alliance drove Saddam's forces out of Kuwait'.
horsto (Å vise profilen) 2009 12 30 17:27:58
But isn't the translation a good chance to find a better word? And I don't think that throwing (ĵeti) is a better solution than kicking (piedbati).
I think that perhaps forigi is the most simple choice, but if you want a more gentle word you could perhaps take ekskludi.
Miland (Å vise profilen) 2009 12 30 19:44:23
horsto:piedbati perfectly fits .. perhaps forigi is the most simple choice, but if you want a more gentle word you could perhaps take ekskludi.'Kick out' is an English idiom, usually used metaphorically, so a literal translation of the words would be an anglismo. In any case Piedbati el means 'kick from', so if this were an idiom in language X, it would be an X-ismo.
Forigi does not have the force of the others, so I would myself group it with the 'gentler' ones like ekskludi.
Miland (Å vise profilen) 2009 12 30 19:48:05
ceigered:Cheers Miland - I'm mostly meaning "eject" as in "just got hit by a missile and I'm looking for my eject lever" (I'm guessing that's "elĵeti"?Sounds all right to me; I understand that ejector seats use some kind of explosive or gas ignition so that the pilot is forte elĵetita! I guess "eject lever" could be rendered elĵet(il)a stango or possibly ellasilo if the seat works on a 'bullet-type' principle!
darkweasel (Å vise profilen) 2009 12 30 20:12:39
Indeed, I laughed when someone told me that he had once used an IRC client whose German translation translated "kick out" literally - as "hinaustreten"
horsto (Å vise profilen) 2009 12 31 01:11:18
Miland:Of course kick out is an idiom. But translating this literally to Esperanto not only creates an anglismon, but also creates an idiom in Esperanto.
'Kick out' is an English idiom, usually used metaphorically, so a literal translation of the words would be an anglismo.
It's really important not to translate english words literally to Esperanto, this makes Esperanto as difficult to learn as the english language.
Especially in technical contexts it's really very very very important to translate relating to meaning as directly as possible.
ceigered (Å vise profilen) 2009 12 31 07:13:00
darkweasel:"hinaustreten"Doesn't that mean "to step out there"? (as this site gives an example: Ins Leben hinaustreten)
darkweasel (Å vise profilen) 2009 12 31 12:07:34
There's a German-language Donald Duck comic that makes a pun out of this double meaning: Donald gets kicked out (literally) of a building and lands on another person, who says:
pass auf, wo du hintrittst! (watch out where you're stepping)
Donald's answer is:
ich bin nicht getreten, ich wurde getreten! (I didn't step, I was kicked!)
horsto (Å vise profilen) 2009 12 31 13:27:58
darkweasel:That's a good example why we should try to avoid idioms in Esperanto.
Indeed, I laughed when someone told me that he had once used an IRC client whose German translation translated "kick out" literally - as "hinaustreten"
darkweasel prefers to translate kick out as elĵeti, perhaps he himself doesn't know why, but the translation of kick out into german is hinauswerfen (literal: throw out).
But if you literally translate kick out you get hinaustreten and if you accidentally use this word in the meaning of kick out, then the people will laugh at you (as darkweasel wrote), because hinaustreten means to step out.
Idioms require that you always use exactly the same words. If you slightly change one of the words, then you risk to get a completely different meaning.
darkweasel (Å vise profilen) 2009 12 31 14:08:35
And I think that this is comparatively rare.For example, you can say ich habe eine Ratte aus meinem Haus hinausgetreten (I kicked out a rat out of my house) - but only if you really did this using one of your feet! In the context of an IRC client, this word is inadequate as there is not yet a protocol to use your feet over TCP/IP
(Ha, that reminds me of a profile picture somebody once had on another message board: "Dear Lord, please grant me the ability to punch people in the face over standard TCP/IP")