Viestejä: 52
Kieli: English
ceigered (Näytä profiilli) 12. tammikuuta 2010 11.22.53
I was thinking "dum ....ante" (E.g. While being Australian, I don't know that English phrase - Dum estante Auxstraliano, mi ne konas tiun Anglan frazon, or I read a book while sitting, mi legis libron dum sidante), but I might be wrong on that.
There's also "despite.....ante" (malgraux.....ante?) (e.g. despite being fully awake, despite reading the book, I did not learn anything) which has me a bit worried.
So any ideas on how to do this kind of phrases?
Cheers!
nshepperd (Näytä profiilli) 12. tammikuuta 2010 12.52.26
Sort of similarly for "despite" I would put malgraŭ ke mi estas plene veka or malgraŭ mia plena vekeco. Perhaps even malgraŭ esti plene veka might work. I'm doubtful about the use of participles though, because again I couldn't find any reference to that sort of usage, although it might exist somewhere.
^^ Though the above cautions are probably just a sign of my paranoia about getting anything wrong.
niko-tina (Näytä profiilli) 12. tammikuuta 2010 12.57.24
I think you can simply say Estante Auxstraliano, mi ne konas tiun Anglan frazon, forgetting about the dum. It's like what PMEG says about dume.
If you still want to use an adverb to avoid misunderstandings, I would recommend you using malgraŭ or kvankam. But remember that malgraŭ goes with substantives and kvankam introduces subphrases.
Read more about kvankam here.
Miland (Näytä profiilli) 12. tammikuuta 2010 14.27.04
ceigered (Näytä profiilli) 12. tammikuuta 2010 14.49.57
(also, the Lernu! vortaro has "whereas" as a translation for dum - is this incorrect? (I need a decent consensus otherwise I won't bother editing it))My question was probably vague so I'll explain a bit better - I know how to say "while" when showing a relationship between times etc "while sitting Mario ate Princess Peach's cake" (Mario 64 (lack of) plot reference). My problem is translating "in spite of, despite, even though such a quality is such, such a thing results" etc.
Examples:
- "While I am happy with these flowers, it's not very helpful for my asthma, you know?"
- Despite being Australian, he did not like cricket
- I don't know how to do US Junior High maths, despite being at Australian University level
- Laser beams are dangerous, despite however cool they are
- While drinking alcohol is a popular activity in society, it is downright dangerous to do while driving an X-wing
Overall, I think kvankam will be the best option (thanks Niko!), are there any other ways to say the above kind of sentences though (or any better ways)?
And cheers guys for that -ante/dum explanation - although I more or less now know how to use them, it did reinforce some knowledge which I wasn't really thinking about!
(sorry for any incomprehensibility. I'm tired
). nshepperd (Näytä profiilli) 12. tammikuuta 2010 15.51.07
http://www.reta-vortaro.de/revo/art/dum.html#dum.0
However this meaning is not exactly the same as the one you describe. I think indeed kvankam (or malgraŭ ke) is a better choice in this case.
Malgraŭ ke drinkado estas multe ŝatata en socio, estas sendube danĝerege tieli dum oni pelas X-flugilon.
(Incidentally, is tieli correct esperanto? I know it's not usual...)
ceigered (Näytä profiilli) 12. tammikuuta 2010 16.20.35
)?As for tieli, I'm not sure if it's correct Esperanto but it sounds good - sort of like "to be like this, to be in this way", to me at least.
Peli, given the definitions I've read, seems to insinuate "driving on" e.g. "drive those cattle back to their paddock, boy!" (yeeha!). Maybe "veturiigi" would work better?
And, I'm no expert, but "estas sendube danĝerega" might work better - the adverb seems like part of the overall action being described, not the describer, thus putting "danĝerega" as an adjective, so the sentence kind of becomes "(la menciota ago) estas sendube danĝera tieli". There's a high chance I'm wrong though, as Murphy's law would have it
Somehow I think I've accidentally turned my own thread into a collaborative effort to translate "Don't drink drive with X-wings!"
EDIT: forget about the "malgraŭ ke" as "Malgraŭ" question at the top - checked revo, seems to be just "malgraŭ ke"
niko-tina (Näytä profiilli) 12. tammikuuta 2010 19.42.56
nshepperd:Malgraŭ ke drinkado estas multe ŝatata en socio, estas sendube danĝerege tieli dum oni pelas X-flugilon.I don't really understand what you mean with tieli. This is a stab in the black, but perhaps it's like fari tiel?
ceigered:There's a high chance I'm wrong though, as Murphy's law would have it.Don't be pessimist. I agree with what you say about danĝerega.
About whereas being a definition of dum, I'd say that it's not good. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Esperanto is a constructed language, so it doesn't make much sense to me to allow dum to mean the same as malgraŭ or kvankam. We already have two, we don't need a third option!
Still, I'm no authority here. I do not master Esperanto (wouldn't it be awesome to be able study it in university?) and getting contradictory tips from different (important) sources (ReVo and PMEG, in this example).
Sorry for deviating the thread once again (silly habit), but it's an important question: who should I ask about, well... everything?
Does the UEA works as a language authority (like the one we have for Spanish: the Royal Academy of the Spanish Language)?
ceigered:(thanks Niko!)(You're welcome
) 
Rogir (Näytä profiilli) 12. tammikuuta 2010 19.57.02
niko-tina:Does the UEA works as a language authority (like the one we have for Spanish: the Royal Academy of the Spanish Language)?We have the Akademio de Esperanto, which I think is independent from UEA.
nshepperd (Näytä profiilli) 12. tammikuuta 2010 23.34.53
niko-tina:I don't really understand what you mean with tieli.Oh no
! It's something like "to act in that manner, to do so". Agi aŭ esti tiel.ceigered:And, I'm no expert, but "estas sendube danĝerega" might work better - the adverb seems like part of the overall action being described, not the describer, thus putting "danĝerega" as an adjective, so the sentence kind of becomes "(la menciota ago) estas sendube danĝera tieli".Oh well, I was interpreting "danĝerege" as referring to the verb "tieli", hence to be an adverb. However something like ĝi estas sendube danĝerega would make sense as well.