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ceigered (Показать профиль) 12 января 2010 г., 11:22:53
I was thinking "dum ....ante" (E.g. While being Australian, I don't know that English phrase - Dum estante Auxstraliano, mi ne konas tiun Anglan frazon, or I read a book while sitting, mi legis libron dum sidante), but I might be wrong on that.
There's also "despite.....ante" (malgraux.....ante?) (e.g. despite being fully awake, despite reading the book, I did not learn anything) which has me a bit worried.
So any ideas on how to do this kind of phrases?
Cheers!
nshepperd (Показать профиль) 12 января 2010 г., 12:52:26
Sort of similarly for "despite" I would put malgraŭ ke mi estas plene veka or malgraŭ mia plena vekeco. Perhaps even malgraŭ esti plene veka might work. I'm doubtful about the use of participles though, because again I couldn't find any reference to that sort of usage, although it might exist somewhere.
^^ Though the above cautions are probably just a sign of my paranoia about getting anything wrong.
Miland (Показать профиль) 12 января 2010 г., 14:27:04
ceigered (Показать профиль) 12 января 2010 г., 14:49:57
(also, the Lernu! vortaro has "whereas" as a translation for dum - is this incorrect? (I need a decent consensus otherwise I won't bother editing it))My question was probably vague so I'll explain a bit better - I know how to say "while" when showing a relationship between times etc "while sitting Mario ate Princess Peach's cake" (Mario 64 (lack of) plot reference). My problem is translating "in spite of, despite, even though such a quality is such, such a thing results" etc.
Examples:
- "While I am happy with these flowers, it's not very helpful for my asthma, you know?"
- Despite being Australian, he did not like cricket
- I don't know how to do US Junior High maths, despite being at Australian University level
- Laser beams are dangerous, despite however cool they are
- While drinking alcohol is a popular activity in society, it is downright dangerous to do while driving an X-wing
Overall, I think kvankam will be the best option (thanks Niko!), are there any other ways to say the above kind of sentences though (or any better ways)?
And cheers guys for that -ante/dum explanation - although I more or less now know how to use them, it did reinforce some knowledge which I wasn't really thinking about!
(sorry for any incomprehensibility. I'm tired
). nshepperd (Показать профиль) 12 января 2010 г., 15:51:07
http://www.reta-vortaro.de/revo/art/dum.html#dum.0
However this meaning is not exactly the same as the one you describe. I think indeed kvankam (or malgraŭ ke) is a better choice in this case.
Malgraŭ ke drinkado estas multe ŝatata en socio, estas sendube danĝerege tieli dum oni pelas X-flugilon.
(Incidentally, is tieli correct esperanto? I know it's not usual...)
ceigered (Показать профиль) 12 января 2010 г., 16:20:35
)?As for tieli, I'm not sure if it's correct Esperanto but it sounds good - sort of like "to be like this, to be in this way", to me at least.
Peli, given the definitions I've read, seems to insinuate "driving on" e.g. "drive those cattle back to their paddock, boy!" (yeeha!). Maybe "veturiigi" would work better?
And, I'm no expert, but "estas sendube danĝerega" might work better - the adverb seems like part of the overall action being described, not the describer, thus putting "danĝerega" as an adjective, so the sentence kind of becomes "(la menciota ago) estas sendube danĝera tieli". There's a high chance I'm wrong though, as Murphy's law would have it
Somehow I think I've accidentally turned my own thread into a collaborative effort to translate "Don't drink drive with X-wings!"
EDIT: forget about the "malgraŭ ke" as "Malgraŭ" question at the top - checked revo, seems to be just "malgraŭ ke"
Rogir (Показать профиль) 12 января 2010 г., 19:57:02
niko-tina:Does the UEA works as a language authority (like the one we have for Spanish: the Royal Academy of the Spanish Language)?We have the Akademio de Esperanto, which I think is independent from UEA.
nshepperd (Показать профиль) 12 января 2010 г., 23:34:53
niko-tina:I don't really understand what you mean with tieli.Oh no
! It's something like "to act in that manner, to do so". Agi aŭ esti tiel.ceigered:And, I'm no expert, but "estas sendube danĝerega" might work better - the adverb seems like part of the overall action being described, not the describer, thus putting "danĝerega" as an adjective, so the sentence kind of becomes "(la menciota ago) estas sendube danĝera tieli".Oh well, I was interpreting "danĝerege" as referring to the verb "tieli", hence to be an adverb. However something like ĝi estas sendube danĝerega would make sense as well.
dimichxp (Показать профиль) 13 января 2010 г., 1:51:42
niko-tina:It doesn't work that way. *Estas danĝera fari...* is incorrect, adjective can never be attributed to a verb. Estas danĝere fari... is correct, but from grammatical POV it is ambigous (is the adverb goes to estas or to fari), but usually context solves the issue.
Here the infinitive works as a substantive. That's why we use an adjective.
If it was a verb, it would modify estas, just like sendube. But I guess it would make much sense that way.
nshepperd (Показать профиль) 13 января 2010 г., 2:46:58
Detala gramatiko
Resti kun leono estas danĝere. Tio, kio estas danĝera, estas la ago resti kun leono. Danĝere estas predikativo de resti. Ĝi havu E-finaĵon, ĉar ĝi estas priskribo de verbo.