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why 'c'?

od Jafiki91, 24 stycznia 2010

Wpisy: 12

Język: English

Jafiki91 (Pokaż profil) 24 stycznia 2010, 03:40:23

So, I'm fairly new to Esperanto, but what I've seen on this and other sites, the letter c is pronounced along the lines of ts.

So my question is, if Esperanto is all about "pure" sounds, why not just right ts, instead of c?

I'm sure there's some sort of logic to it, but i don't see it.

69UM24OSU12 (Pokaż profil) 24 stycznia 2010, 05:22:47

Well, it is pure in the sense that c always makes the ts sound. Remember, Esperanto is spoken by the speakers of many different languages. In some of those languages, the ts sound CAN be related to just one letter. For instance, Italians can relate it to the sound that z makes in their language. Esperanto is an international language. As you learn the language, try not to look at it from just an English speaker's point of view. With time, it gets easier to do that.

Mi deziras al vi bonan ŝancon! Bonvenon en la mondo de Esperanto.

PaulExcoff (Pokaż profil) 24 stycznia 2010, 08:55:04

I think 'c' is a /ts/ sound in quite a few eastern European languages, which had a significant influence on the fundaments of the language.

But I think you are right that the /ts/ sound could simply made by 'ts'.

Borgo (Pokaż profil) 24 stycznia 2010, 09:10:59

Jafiki91:So, I'm fairly new to Esperanto, but what I've seen on this and other sites, the letter c is pronounced along the lines of ts.

So my question is, if Esperanto is all about "pure" sounds, why not just right ts, instead of c?

I'm sure there's some sort of logic to it, but i don't see it.
I think it is that way in Ido.

darkweasel (Pokaż profil) 24 stycznia 2010, 09:33:22

Esperanto also has other similar sounds: ĉ is tŝ, ĝ is dĵ.

The difference is that you need to pronounce c/ĉ/ĝ as ONE sound, while you're allowed (not required) to pronounce ts/tŝ/dĵ as a full T/D and a full S/Ŝ/Ĵ.

If you don't really understand this difference (like me), just pronounce them the same way.

ceigered (Pokaż profil) 24 stycznia 2010, 10:55:29

Borgo:I think it is that way in Ido.
Nup. Ido (Ido #1, THE Ido) is very similar to Esperanto in this regard, only differences are that "hatted" letters us the h system, except ĝ and ĵ, which are just J and j becomes y lango.gif e.g. ĉ = ch, ĝ = dj, ĵ = j, j = y, ŝ = sh, ĥ = N/A and so forth.

Another Esperantido (or 500) may use just ts though, mondlango comes to mind, which ditches hatted letters and uses x for ŝ and c for ĉ. One again, still the "one letter for 'two sounds'" problem for some.

Roberto12 (Pokaż profil) 24 stycznia 2010, 16:41:41

C makes sense with respect to CX and SX, if you decree that removing the circumflex changes an into an (when you go from CX to C, you're going from [tS] to [ts]). The question then becomes, why don't we have a single letter for [dz], e.g. ZX?

Jafiki91 (Pokaż profil) 24 stycznia 2010, 18:35:45

This makes sense, i just like to look at it from an IPA point of view, in that c and ĉ both make sounds that can be represented by other letters in combination.

Borgo (Pokaż profil) 25 stycznia 2010, 09:07:12

ceigered:
Borgo:I think it is that way in Ido.
Nup. Ido (Ido #1, THE Ido) is very similar to Esperanto in this regard, only differences are that "hatted" letters us the h system, except ĝ and ĵ, which are just J and j becomes y lango.gif e.g. ĉ = ch, ĝ = dj, ĵ = j, j = y, ŝ = sh, ĥ = N/A and so forth.

Another Esperantido (or 500) may use just ts though, mondlango comes to mind, which ditches hatted letters and uses x for ŝ and c for ĉ. One again, still the "one letter for 'two sounds'" problem for some.
Oops, sorry, my mistake. I guess Ido has the same pronunciation of "C" as Esperanto.

patrik (Pokaż profil) 27 stycznia 2010, 02:25:10

It's maybe for aesthetic reasons. cent certainly looks better than tsent.

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