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why 'c'?

จาก Jafiki91, 24 มกราคม 2010

ข้อความ 12

ภาษา: English

Jafiki91 (แสดงโปรไฟล์) 24 มกราคม 2010, 03:40:23

So, I'm fairly new to Esperanto, but what I've seen on this and other sites, the letter c is pronounced along the lines of ts.

So my question is, if Esperanto is all about "pure" sounds, why not just right ts, instead of c?

I'm sure there's some sort of logic to it, but i don't see it.

69UM24OSU12 (แสดงโปรไฟล์) 24 มกราคม 2010, 05:22:47

Well, it is pure in the sense that c always makes the ts sound. Remember, Esperanto is spoken by the speakers of many different languages. In some of those languages, the ts sound CAN be related to just one letter. For instance, Italians can relate it to the sound that z makes in their language. Esperanto is an international language. As you learn the language, try not to look at it from just an English speaker's point of view. With time, it gets easier to do that.

Mi deziras al vi bonan ŝancon! Bonvenon en la mondo de Esperanto.

PaulExcoff (แสดงโปรไฟล์) 24 มกราคม 2010, 08:55:04

I think 'c' is a /ts/ sound in quite a few eastern European languages, which had a significant influence on the fundaments of the language.

But I think you are right that the /ts/ sound could simply made by 'ts'.

Borgo (แสดงโปรไฟล์) 24 มกราคม 2010, 09:10:59

Jafiki91:So, I'm fairly new to Esperanto, but what I've seen on this and other sites, the letter c is pronounced along the lines of ts.

So my question is, if Esperanto is all about "pure" sounds, why not just right ts, instead of c?

I'm sure there's some sort of logic to it, but i don't see it.
I think it is that way in Ido.

darkweasel (แสดงโปรไฟล์) 24 มกราคม 2010, 09:33:22

Esperanto also has other similar sounds: ĉ is tŝ, ĝ is dĵ.

The difference is that you need to pronounce c/ĉ/ĝ as ONE sound, while you're allowed (not required) to pronounce ts/tŝ/dĵ as a full T/D and a full S/Ŝ/Ĵ.

If you don't really understand this difference (like me), just pronounce them the same way.

ceigered (แสดงโปรไฟล์) 24 มกราคม 2010, 10:55:29

Borgo:I think it is that way in Ido.
Nup. Ido (Ido #1, THE Ido) is very similar to Esperanto in this regard, only differences are that "hatted" letters us the h system, except ĝ and ĵ, which are just J and j becomes y lango.gif e.g. ĉ = ch, ĝ = dj, ĵ = j, j = y, ŝ = sh, ĥ = N/A and so forth.

Another Esperantido (or 500) may use just ts though, mondlango comes to mind, which ditches hatted letters and uses x for ŝ and c for ĉ. One again, still the "one letter for 'two sounds'" problem for some.

Roberto12 (แสดงโปรไฟล์) 24 มกราคม 2010, 16:41:41

C makes sense with respect to CX and SX, if you decree that removing the circumflex changes an into an (when you go from CX to C, you're going from [tS] to [ts]). The question then becomes, why don't we have a single letter for [dz], e.g. ZX?

Jafiki91 (แสดงโปรไฟล์) 24 มกราคม 2010, 18:35:45

This makes sense, i just like to look at it from an IPA point of view, in that c and ĉ both make sounds that can be represented by other letters in combination.

Borgo (แสดงโปรไฟล์) 25 มกราคม 2010, 09:07:12

ceigered:
Borgo:I think it is that way in Ido.
Nup. Ido (Ido #1, THE Ido) is very similar to Esperanto in this regard, only differences are that "hatted" letters us the h system, except ĝ and ĵ, which are just J and j becomes y lango.gif e.g. ĉ = ch, ĝ = dj, ĵ = j, j = y, ŝ = sh, ĥ = N/A and so forth.

Another Esperantido (or 500) may use just ts though, mondlango comes to mind, which ditches hatted letters and uses x for ŝ and c for ĉ. One again, still the "one letter for 'two sounds'" problem for some.
Oops, sorry, my mistake. I guess Ido has the same pronunciation of "C" as Esperanto.

patrik (แสดงโปรไฟล์) 27 มกราคม 2010, 02:25:10

It's maybe for aesthetic reasons. cent certainly looks better than tsent.

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