ekzample(s) for clear esperanto pronouncation
av qwertz, 14 februari 2010
Meddelanden: 56
Språk: English
patrik (Visa profilen) 26 februari 2010 07:26:08
LyzTyphone:Thought I don't want to sound discouraging here, I would like to warn against a cult of denaskulo. If we let ourselves believe that there is a "native" Esperanto, we risk turning Esperanto into another "nacilingvo", which is no longer the property of everyone.I very much understand your fears, but I don't think there's something to worry about. Besides, in my opinion, Ivo Lapenna speaks better than any of the denaskuloj in the video (and thus, all of us can also do better).
The Esperanto they speak is no different from what a learner speaks. They may speak it more fluently or spontaneously than most learners, but that doesn't mean a greater right over the development of language. In fact, I shall say their derivation from "normo" is "correct" only on a psychological aspect, which is however not neccessarily abiding by the spirit of Lingvo Internacia.
It must also be mentioned, that in Esperanto exist only "denaskaj parolantoj", but NOT "indiĝenaj parolantoj" [indigenous speakers]. 
(The article below best describes the distinction between the two, and the importance of indigenous speakers in linguistics.)Only indigenous speakers can determine the precise meanings of words or expressions and the grammaticality* of a particular text in their language.^ Denaskuloj can't do that, because they are bound (like you, me, and all the other Esperantists) to follow the rules and models of good Esperanto, as expressed in the Fundamento and Academy decisions, and even these allow variations, that they cannot determine. In other words, in E-o, denaskuloj don't have any power to undo and change rules, unlike the indigenous speakers in natural languages. (This could serve as a good defense for the Fundamento's "netuŝebleco". If denaskuloj can overturn the Fundamento, thus becoming "indigenous speakers" in a sense, dialects are inevitable.)
I suggest that you read this article by Ken Miner: LA NEEBLECO DE PRIESPERANTA LINGVOSCIENCO
* - I'm not sure, if this word exists.
^ - Thus, it could be said that essentially, the job of linguists and grammarians is to do "reverse engineering" on natural languages using indigenous texts and speech. Grammar books are the results of such. The same cannot be said about Esperanto except in one occasion: the study of the word-building principles of E-o (like de Saussure's). Esperanto grew out of a lernolibro, not the other way around.
ceigered (Visa profilen) 26 februari 2010 11:04:06
While I agree that a perception that Denaskuloj are superior speakers is a misleading perception to have, I don't think anyone here is of much belief that being a denaskulo is inherently better - intriguing, interesting, and great for those of us who wonder what EO spoken in place of English nowadays would be like
Kaj denaskuloj ne egalas nacilingvoparolantoj - Unless all the denaskuloj came together to form an Esperantujo (which would be the beginnings of nacilingvismo in EO)
Sorry for my incoherent English today, too tired
Alciona (Visa profilen) 27 februari 2010 01:14:00
Bebo parolas en Esperanto. (Baby speaks in Esperanto.)
erinja (Visa profilen) 27 februari 2010 23:35:35
So while a denaskulo might possibly speak more FLUENTLY, the denaskulo might not be speaking more correctly than someone who learned the language from a book.
Also, keep in mind that many denaskuloj speak very well as a small child, then feel that it's uncool to speak Esperanto as they get older, and they lose their skills. By the time they regain their interest, in lots of cases, they have lost whatever edge they might have once had, in comparison to someone who learned on their own.
qwertz (Visa profilen) 13 mars 2010 19:21:16
China infanino parolas Esperanton
Incredible, just take a hear if the language switchs from chinese (completly double dutch for me) to esperanto (clear understand) at 0:20 minute:
The 22th International language festival in China
O kej just few words. But... the chinese pronouncation is completly different to the esperanto one. But that doesn't seem to be matter to pronounce Esperanto clearly understandable. Wow.
trojo (Visa profilen) 13 mars 2010 21:22:13
qwertz:Esperanto is definitly a proper language for asian people. Even if Esperanto has this romanic language roots.I love how the interviewer and Folia (the girl) seem to have no trouble at all saying "knabino". So much for the popular conlanger theory that Asian people can only pronounce CV syllables.
China infanino parolas Esperanton
Evildela (Visa profilen) 13 mars 2010 23:40:37
ceigered (Visa profilen) 14 mars 2010 11:28:30
trojo:So much for the popular conlanger theory that Asian people can only pronounce CV syllables.Haha, I agree. Although, CC does get hard for various reasons (not for Asians but for people in general), because when we get into CC we start to slowly make things a bit more alien, up until we get to words like the Dutch word "schrijveningen" (which is MUCH easier to say when you have a dutch person working with you on your pronunciation
)Anyway, it's all in the grey area of phonetics that no one really cares about unless their bottom is on the line, probably why no gov't has tried to make a conlang themselves.
patrik (Visa profilen) 26 mars 2010 09:27:12
qwertz:Esperanto is definitly a proper language for asian people. Even if Esperanto has this romanic language roots.I agree with you very well. If the critics see (or rather hear) this and STILL insist that E-o is no(t) good for Asians, they must be deaf.
China infanino parolas Esperanton
Incredible, just take a hear if the language switchs from chinese (completly double dutch for me) to esperanto (clear understand) at 0:20 minute:
The 22th International language festival in China
O kej just few words. But... the chinese pronouncation is completly different to the esperanto one. But that doesn't seem to be matter to pronounce Esperanto clearly understandable. Wow.
Now, another video, this time, from the president of the Beijing Esperanto-Association: La prezidento de la Pekina Esperanto-Asocio
What do you think?
Thank goodness, that Youtube exist~! ceigered (Visa profilen) 26 mars 2010 12:56:17