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Standalone ĉi?

viết bởi Durandal1717, Ngày 23 tháng 3 năm 2010

Tin nhắn: 10

Nội dung: English

Durandal1717 (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 01:06:31 Ngày 23 tháng 3 năm 2010

I was wondering, since I don't think I've seen any examples on it, if ĉi can be used by itself to denote proximity of the nearest noun.

Such as saying 'ĉi libro' for 'this book', instead of the frankly redundant 'ĉi tiu libro', the correlative of which I would only think to use when referring to a book already mentioned. I don't think it could be easily confused with 'ĉi-', which when not subsumed into a correlative always retains its hyphen.

erinja (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 02:46:51 Ngày 23 tháng 3 năm 2010

You can definitely say "ĉi libro", no problem at all with that.

marcuscf (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 03:17:00 Ngày 23 tháng 3 năm 2010

If you say "ĉi libro", I feel something is missing, but I never heard anybody say it's incorrect.

sjheiss (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 05:58:22 Ngày 23 tháng 3 năm 2010

marcuscf:If you say "ĉi libro", I feel something is missing, but I never heard anybody say it's incorrect.
Yeah, it does seem like something is missing. Without the "tiu", it makes it seem like it has something to do with "ĉi-" than with "ti-" in the correlatives.

darkweasel (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 06:24:42 Ngày 23 tháng 3 năm 2010

This is a correct form (according to PMEG) that even I sometimes use, but I wouldn't recommend to use it in formal writing. Simplaj samsignifaj vortoj marks it as a bad form.

Durandal1717 (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 07:27:27 Ngày 23 tháng 3 năm 2010

sjheiss:
marcuscf:If you say "ĉi libro", I feel something is missing, but I never heard anybody say it's incorrect.
Yeah, it does seem like something is missing. Without the "tiu", it makes it seem like it has something to do with "ĉi-" than with "ti-" in the correlatives.
I thought this myself, until I realized it's only used in words like ĉi-matene. The only real confusing situation I could conjecture is something like "ĉi ĉio", I guess in response to a question like "kio ĉio" or something.

erinja (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 16:05:04 Ngày 23 tháng 3 năm 2010

I use "ĉi ĉio" as well, no problem. But it's not a response to "kio ĉio" (which doesn't make sense to my ear)

Imagine the following situation:
You come home, where your kids have been alone. The house is a complete mess, and it looks like a hurricane came through.

You say to your kids:
"Ho ve, kio estas ĉi ĉio???"

("Oh no, what is all of this?")

I have no kids. But I do use it to say, for example "all of this isn't important" (ĉi ĉio ne gravas).

Any case where you might want to say "all of this" or "all of this stuff", "ĉi ĉio" could be suitable.

ceigered (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 05:06:00 Ngày 24 tháng 3 năm 2010

"Ho, kio estas cxi cxio?"

That's more or less like saying "What is everything here?!", right? In which case I think such a usage of cxi makes sense (I think I might use "cxi" a bit more now, cheers Erinja for those examples lango.gif)

Roberto12 (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 09:23:34 Ngày 24 tháng 3 năm 2010

I would never modify a noun with ĉi - but that's just me.

Miland (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 20:53:11 Ngày 24 tháng 3 năm 2010

Ĉi by itself according to PMEG is a popular use, effectively a short form for ĉi tiu(j) or occasionally ĉi tie. But if there's any risk of misunderstanding, I suggest that you use the full forms.

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