Mendacapote:But if you read a little bit more, in the same chapter you will find:
According to that text, I could be absolutely wrong about the gender of bebo, but the expression “bebo aŭ bebino” still be reasonably right!!!

If you read the next sentence after what you quoted, you will find: Sed multaj firme neŭtraj vortoj, ekz. homo, persono, infano, parenco, membro, pasaĝero, demokrato, turisto, besto, formiko, muŝo k.a., apenaŭ iam estas uzataj virsekse. Oni ne parolas pri ekz. homo kaj homino, persono kaj personino, infano kaj infanino, celante, ke homo, persono kaj infano estu komprenataj vire.

Since every definition of "bebo" includes the word "infano", I think it completely reasonable to assume that "bebo" is also gender-neutral. It is therefore in the category of "firmly neutral", and not in the same category as names of nationalities etc, which some people assume to be gendered.

As a matter of fact when I typed the word virbebo in Google; I couldn’t find any link. So, unless nothing has ever been written about a male babe in Esperanto, I suppose the authors assumed that bebo, was sufficient to mean he was a boy. Curiously by the other hand you can find more than a hundred examples of the use of bebino!

As I said, "virbebo" sounds unusual. I firmly believe that "bebo" is gender neutral, and I would not use "virbebo". I would use "knabeto", or even "malina bebo", using two words. To me "bebo" doesn't sound at all like something is a boy. Also, people are not really used to using the vir- prefix very much; I think we all agree that "bovo" is firmly gender neutral, right? But Google gives far more hits for "bovino" than for "virbovo". "Hundino" comes up with many more than "virhundo". Sometimes things just work out this way.

Do you still think that the expression “bebo aŭ bebino” makes no sense?

Yes, firmly. It is like saying "bovo aŭ bovino". It is like saying "a child or a girl". As I said before - we must speak the language as it is, not as we think it should be. Every dictionary I have ever seen has given a firmly gender-neutral definition for "bebo". I see no reason to artificially give it a gender. Especially not now, when genders are increasingly falling out of use in Esperanto (especially with relation to professions, which in the past were often assumed to be one gender or the other).

You must be right. I just finished reading some comments about the “hispanization” of Esperanto, and the use of the word infano with a male gender connotation was one of the emblematic evidences. My first approach to Esperanto was through: “¿Sabe usted Esperanto?” of Jorge Hess, from Argentina. In that Esperanto course infano means “niño” and infanino “niña”… literally and without hesitation. It should be corrected.

Nevertheless I found something interesting from Zamenhof himself:

“Por ni estas gravaj ne iaj bagatelaj eksteraj detalaĵoj de nia lingvo, sed ĝia esenco, ĝia ideo kaj celo, tial ni antaŭ ĉio devas zorgi pri ĝia seinterrompa vivado, pri ĝia senhalta kreskado. Granda estas la diferenco inter homo-infano kaj homo-viro; granda eble estos la diferenco inter la nuna Esperanto kaj la evoluciinta Esperanto de post multaj jarcentoj; sed dank’al nia diligenta gardado, la lingvo fortike vivos, malgraŭ ĉiuj atencoj, ĝia spirito fortiĝos, ĝia celo estos atingita, kaj niaj nepoj benos nian paciencon”.

He could have said: homo infano kaj homo plenkreskulo (aŭ plenaĝulo)… Perhaps for Zamenhof infano wasn’t that neutral, after all...

And about the “artificial” reason for giving gender to the word bebo… it’s quite simple: kids are born naturally gendered!

Mendacapote:
He could have said: homo infano kaj homo plenkreskulo (aŭ plenaĝulo)… Perhaps for Zamenhof infano wasn’t that neutral, after all...

I think that an English speaker of the era would have said "a person - a child and a person - a man", even though the English "child" has no gender connotation whatsoever. I think it's indicative of the fact that people didn't speak so often of 'adults' back then, rather they spoke of men. It was a male-centric society.

And about the “artificial” reason for giving gender to the word bebo… it’s quite simple: kids are born naturally gendered!

Perhaps it's natural to a native Spanish speaker. But to a native English speaker, "baby" is strictly gender-neutral. You have to specify either "a baby boy" or "a baby girl" to indicate one way or the other.

Personally, I treat babies as gender-neutral and I tend to refer to them as "it" rather than "he" or "she", even if I happen to know the gender. Unless the parents are around, in which case I have to try hard to modify my speech and refer to the baby with a gendered pronoun. It's hard for me to envision the baby as having a gender if it hasn't started displaying any gender-specific traits yet. I think that sleeping, pooping, and crying are pretty gender-neutral. (I am not a big lover of babies, have you guessed?)

It's funny about gender assumptions, though. My family has a white fluffy dog, and people tend to automatically assume my dog is female (he is not) just because he is white and fluffy. This makes no sense; clearly, his breed could not survive if it had only females! But when people meet our dog for the first time and guess his gender, I don't believe anyone has *ever* guessed male.

It's hard for me to envision the baby as having a gender if it hasn't started displaying any gender-specific traits yet.

Do you really guide yourself by the gender specific traits to start calling them boys or girls???

How would you refer about a boy (or girl) who has a strong trend to behave like the opposite sex? It is really a puzzle to me when I work with teenage patients dressed in a very “unisex” fashion and nobody could say if they are males or females. I’m not homophobic at all, but I confess I find it irritating to become a mess trying to call someone properly not knowing if he (or she) would get offended if I called him (her) mister or miss…

erinja:
It's funny about gender assumptions, though. My family has a white fluffy dog, and people tend to automatically assume my dog is female (he is not) just because he is white and fluffy. This makes no sense; clearly, his breed could not survive if it had only females! But when people meet our dog for the first time and guess his gender, I don't believe anyone has *ever* guessed male.

It's not very logical, but I've noticed that many people seem to refer to most dogs as "he" and most cats as "she" as well. Unless it's a very buff, large cat, or a fluffy or delicate or very small dog. Maybe it's a subconscious assumption of sexual dimorphism that just carries across species lines since we're not actually thinking about it?

DesertNaiad:
It's not very logical, but I've noticed that many people seem to refer to most dogs as "he" and most cats as "she" as well. Unless it's a very buff, large cat, or a fluffy or delicate or very small dog. Maybe it's a subconscious assumption of sexual dimorphism that just carries across species lines since we're not actually thinking about it?

This is absolutely correct. We have two male cats and people almost always call them "she", too. We usually remind our guests "all of our pets are male", just because the genders seem to confuse them so much.

Mendacapote:
Do you really guide yourself by the gender specific traits to start calling them boys or girls???

I guide myself by the child being old enough to act like an actual person who I can address, and they can understand me. A baby basically just lies there and sleeps and cries. A baby has not developed yet to really understand anything at all about the world. Not to be too offensive to parents out there, but I don't really consider a baby to be a person in the full sense of the word. I think a kid has to reach at least a year old or so before I start thinking of them as being a person and having a gender.

That’s weird! What about a kid who has a neurological disorder and (or) a deep mental retardation? Will he (or she) ever become a person for you?

For me any froglike fetus with human genes is a person, no matter what!!!

Mendacapote:That’s weird! What about a kid who has a neurological disorder and (or) a deep mental retardation? Will he (or she) ever become a person for you?

For me any froglike fetus with human genes is a person, no matter what!!!

I know what she means. A person in the sense of them having a gender. To me, I can't even TELL the sex unless the parents put blue of pink on them

pastorant:
I know what she means. A person in the sense of them having a gender. To me, I can't even TELL the sex unless the parents put blue of pink on them

I understand too. They look a bit like small, helpless aliens, and I get around the unknown sex problem by talking to the baby instead of the parents if possible. "Oh, aren't you a little darling" goes over better than "What is it?" Go figure... >.> lol And yes, at the age where all they do is eat, cry, excrete and smile from gas, is sex, or gender (which in an older person can be quite different), really an issue?