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Esperanto vs others

от k1attack, 03 май 2010

Съобщения: 52

Език: English

ceigered (Покажи профила) 04 май 2010, 09:37:00

darkweasel:

Please don't start talking about uninteresting 100-word planned languages again. Find another forum if you want to, but I think most of the readers of an Esperanto learning site don't care about them. Personally, I hate my RSS reader being spammed by these messages.

Sorry if this seemed a bit rude.
On the flipside though, some people might find find such 100-word languages EXTREMELY interesting. Which just goes to show how pointless the answer's gonna end up being because everyone's got their own opinion. (as for finding another forum, that I do agree with. The opinions here, for whatever K1attack is looking for, are too subjective and biased of a sample because not only are we now speakers of EO but there is a lack of people interested in other conlangs as well)

@ Miland:
This begs a good question, though, I think, on the topic of what makes an Esperantist an Esperantist - we all learn Esperanto, but I for one am totally against the idea that Esperanto is better than its rivals. For which one is better, I'm not too sure, but I think it's way too close a race to call - but I simply am too lazy to invest my time in them, and would rather put my time into improving my sad excuse for Irish conversational skills than learning another IAL.
So am I an Esperantist still, despite a lack of active support for the language (at least compared to other languages)? Or am I a speaker of Esperanto? And unrelated to this here thread, do we assume users of Esperanto sites and attenders to EO meetings are Esperantists? Very interesting....

My answer to the original question:
Replace the "men" with "languages" okulumo.gif

jan aleksan (Покажи профила) 04 май 2010, 11:24:19

darkweasel:
Donniedillon:
erinja:Asking a forum full of people which language is "better" is not effective, and you will never get them to agree on an answer (or even to agree that there *is* an answer)
+1
+1

Please don't start talking about uninteresting 100-word planned languages again. Find another forum if you want to, but I think most of the readers of an Esperanto learning site don't care about them. Personally, I hate my RSS reader being spammed by these messages.
-1

I disagree. It's not spamming as some people here are interested in it. But As Erinja already suggested, it would be more convenient to post it in esperanto in the part of the forum dedicated to the other languages, or in other websites like Omniglot.

I would be very ashamed if we begin a kind of censure on this topic.

ceigered (Покажи профила) 04 май 2010, 13:59:21

Tre interese!

So then, if everyone who speaks EO is an Esperantisto, I guess then that saying that Esperantists support EO over other conlangs is probably not the best use of terminology with the word "Esperantist"... Esperanto-proano? lango.gif

k1attack (Покажи профила) 04 май 2010, 14:05:38

I think Esperanto's a great language but a guy called Arpee always keeps filling my head with his own ideas. He thinks Esperanto's a failure. He's WRONG!!! Recently, he created another mini-language called Puna Pala. I do find mini-langs interesting but they aren't really suited for the 21st century world! (Arpee thinks Toki Pona's meant to be an IAL, whereas it isn't!)

Mi pensas, ke Esperanto estas la plej bona! Aliaj planlingvoj estas ne tiel bona por la
21-a jarcento mondo kiel Esperanto.

ceigered (Покажи профила) 04 май 2010, 15:02:52

You're right K1attack - if Esperanto was a failure, this community here wouldn't exist. Which is related to something I think conlangers need to note. There are 3 "Esperantists" - those whose needs are fulfilled by Esperanto, and are happy that way, those who learn it because they just felt like it, and those who like conlangs. It's really only the last who'll like to join other IAL movements, and that's counter-intuitive as many will attempt to create their own IALs. This is like how Ido was "born". The problem is that these languages end up with a sort of inferiority complex, always trying to outdo each other, and as a result there is little joy and happiness in the languages at times. What IALs need are are a birth out of goodwill and heart, otherwise they will only live up to whatever feelings were put into them. If an IAL creator made a language with no intention for it to really succeed, it won't succeed.

That is one thing I admire about Zamenhoff, he valued his language, even if it got destroyed along the way. And it was a part of him, as if it were one of his organs - not Esperanto itself, but the mentality and methodology behind it.

Once again though, I'm more of an arty-farty person myself, and EO isn't quite my favourite thing in the entire universe. But, I guess that's another point to consider - is EO's benefits in its grammar, which is what other IALs try to outdo, or in the soul of the community? I go the latter.

Miland (Покажи профила) 04 май 2010, 15:40:19

k1attack:I think Esperanto's a great language but a guy called Arpee always keeps filling my head with his own ideas. He thinks Esperanto's a failure. He's WRONG!!!.. Mi pensas, ke Esperanto estas la plej bona! Aliaj planlingvoj estas ne tiel bona por la 21-a jarcento mondo kiel Esperanto.
Very good, you have the right attitude. Keep it up!

jan aleksan (Покажи профила) 04 май 2010, 15:43:54

Anonymous Esperantist from Britain:

(Whether or not someone is an Esperantist is very clear for me. It was agreed upon in the year 1905 in Boulogne-sur-mer and I don't think that it is for any reason useful to change anything about that: Every person who knows and uses the language Esperanto is an Esperantist, regardless of what sort of purposes they use it for).
I disagree because it doesn't fit to the way we use -ist (like in kapitalistoj, budisto, ktp). -ist used in that way means to me that you support the idea behind the concept. You are a "samideano".

I don't like the word "samideano". It's like the use of "citizen" during the french revolution, or "comrad" in the U.S.S.R. It means "you hav to agree with the idea, otherwise we don't belong to the same group and thus we are not friends". And in the case of Esperanto, the "idea behind" is the "fina venko" (which I dislike even more than "samideano")

When I learned esperanto, I didn't subscribe anything that imply that I have to be "samideano". I prefer to say I'm an esperantophone (esperantparolanto). Esperantano is ok for me. In any case, it bother me to have "-ant" in the word "Esperanto", "ant-ist-", "ant-an-", "-antparol-*ant*" are confuzing.

ridulo.gif,

darkweasel (Покажи профила) 04 май 2010, 15:55:20

jan aleksan:In any case, it bother me to have "-ant" in the word "Esperanto", "ant-ist-", "ant-an-", "-antparol-*ant*" are confuzing.
Just that the "ant" in Esperanto isn't a participle anymore. It's an unanalysable root ESPERANT/.

I agree with you that samideano is a horrible term, but in my opinion, fina venko isn't. After all, it's the goal of the Esperanto movement to bring Esperanto to all people.

jan aleksan (Покажи профила) 04 май 2010, 17:02:32

darkweasel:
I agree with you that samideano is a horrible term, but in my opinion, fina venko isn't. After all, it's the goal of the Esperanto movement to bring Esperanto to all people.
Every time I hear "fina venko" I think about the nazi's "final solution"...

LyzTyphone (Покажи профила) 04 май 2010, 17:43:14

Well, likes and dislikes are pure subjective matter.

Maybe because of my upbringing or simply because I am too young, I would classify myself as Utopian Liberal type from the 60s and 70s. The "Interna Ideo", which is what "samideano" is really about, rings very true to me. And I enjoy being an Esperantisto who believes in the potential of the language.

I do believe you don't have to be a samideano to be Esperantisto. But I do think the belief in la Fina Venko is what gave Esperanto the momentum and distinguish it from all other conlangs out there. We don't have to worship that, but certainly it is a very important (if not essential) meaning to Esperanto.

No comment on the "Final Solution" comparison.

*edited, obviously I was too tired.*

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