Meddelanden: 6
Språk: English
ninjaaron_0 (Visa profilen) 20 maj 2010 15:54:23
Anyway, I've been snooping about to find out about passive constructions. According to the Fundamento and a couple of other sources, it seems the correct form is something like, "la pico estas manĝita," or something like that.
On the other hand, I have also heard that forms like, "la pico manĝitas" have the same meaning. This form is perversely delightful.
Furthermore, I've heard it said that the passive is best left unused for the sake of simplicity, and sentences like "picon oni manĝis" are to be preferred. For me, this also raises the question as to whether or not one could simply leave out the unspecified subject, "picon manĝis"? In any case, do you think it would be understood if I used it?
Miland (Visa profilen) 20 maj 2010 16:30:34
ninjaaron_0: whether or not one could simply leave out the unspecified subject, "picon manĝis"? In any case, do you think it would be understood if I used it?If you leave out the subject you are liable to be misunderstood. I would include Oni, or say La pico estas manĝita, if all you want to say is that the pizza has been eaten.
tommjames (Visa profilen) 20 maj 2010 17:04:17
ninjaaron_0:On the other hand, I have also heard that forms like, "la pico manĝitas" have the same meaning. This form is perversely delightful.I like the shortened forms too, however it is worth noting that these forms are fairly uncommon and so using them would sound a bit odd. Additionally some people consider them to be "difficult" for some reason which I have as yet failed to establish, so I would suggest avoiding them in general.
ninjaaron_0 (Visa profilen) 20 maj 2010 17:26:57
As a learner of language, I can say that it is a bit more difficult for me to recall, use and recognize the more inflected forms as apposed to the periphrastic ones...
But I don't reckon anyone would have a problem reading it. Maybe the short forms are more suited to a literary register and periphrastics are better for speaking...
Hmm... I sense fun in my future.
erinja (Visa profilen) 20 maj 2010 19:52:26
It isn't wrong to use them but I'd consider it bad style, except in poetry etc.
horsto (Visa profilen) 20 maj 2010 20:13:39
ninjaaron_0:That's true perhaps for beginners who don't know the passive. In normal language usage you can use both forms, as you like it.
Furthermore, I've heard it said that the passive is best left unused for the sake of simplicity, and sentences like "picon oni manĝis" are to be preferred.
ninjaaron_0:There are some verbs which don't have a subject, f.e. pluvi, but manĝi doesn't belong to them. You can express this with the -iĝ- suffix, which makes a transative verb intransitive: La pico manĝiĝis.
For me, this also raises the question as to whether or not one could simply leave out the unspecified subject, "picon manĝis"? In any case, do you think it would be understood if I used it?