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Quick question about aĵ

از Starkman, 24 مهٔ 2010

پست‌ها: 28

زبان: English

Starkman (نمایش مشخصات) 24 مهٔ 2010،‏ 23:09:10

"AJ" is pronounce like the English letter "I." Is "AĴ" also pronounced like that?

Thanks,

Starkman

3rdblade (نمایش مشخصات) 24 مهٔ 2010،‏ 23:55:49

No, and there's no direct English equivalent for it. 'ĵ' is like the 's' in 'Asia' or 'leisure'.

Starkman (نمایش مشخصات) 25 مهٔ 2010،‏ 1:12:00

That's what I thought; it's only the 'zh' sound, not the 'AJ' sound as well.

So 'AĴ' would have the vowel sound of 'fAther' and the 'zh' sound of 'Asia or 'Leisure', as 3rdblade noted.

Thanks,

Starkman

3rdblade:No, and there's no direct English equivalent for it. 'ĵ' is like the 's' in 'Asia' or 'leisure'.

Miland (نمایش مشخصات) 25 مهٔ 2010،‏ 10:14:08

The sound of ĵ is the sound of 's' in 'leisure' or 'pleasure', but not that of 's' in 'Asia', if you mean a 'sh' sound; the latter is the sound of ŝ.

ceigered (نمایش مشخصات) 25 مهٔ 2010،‏ 10:27:13

Miland:The sound of ĵ is the sound of 's' in 'leisure' or 'pleasure', but not that of 's' in 'Asia', if you mean a 'sh' sound; the latter is the sound of ŝ.
Miland I think that might just be some British accents - I know that in Australian English, the S in Asia, leisure and pleasure is the same (but I have heard some say "ey-zi-ya" on occasion). I'm guessing it's a British thing to pronounce Asia differently at least, after all, while in the UK my name is "Kris-tyen", in Australian and the US (I think) it's pronounced "Kris-chin" for the most part.

Unless there's some international conspiracy going on and you all pronounce Asia hyper-correctly and we Australians never got the memo rido.gif

EDIT: wiktionary says [ˈeɪʒə], [ˈeɪʃə], so at least half of us would pronounce it as "ejĵa", but I have to admit I've never noticed anyone say "ejŝa" before...

3rdblade (نمایش مشخصات) 25 مهٔ 2010،‏ 12:04:58

The OP is American (or at least lives there) and this question did actually cross my mind, but yeah, ceigered is right; pronouncing it the other way is mainly a British thing. (We Australians get to hear a lot of both US and British English on TV at home!)

On the subject of ĵ, I remember when a new English word was coined a few years back, which we'd write 'ĵuĵ' in eo. It didn't seem to catch on, partly because all the English spellings they came up with for it either didn't seem right (zuz, sus, juj), or looked ugly (zhuzh). It means 'to spruce up, make prettier'. I suppose we'd say 'beletigi', which also looks + sounds a bit cute too.

Miland (نمایش مشخصات) 25 مهٔ 2010،‏ 12:43:48

ceigered:.. in Australian English, the S in Asia, leisure and pleasure is the same (but I have heard some say "ey-zi-ya" on occasion).
EDIT: wiktionary says [ˈeɪʒə], [ˈeɪʃə], so at least half of us would pronounce it as "ejĵa", but I have to admit I've never noticed anyone say "ejŝa" before...
That's an eye-opener. The Concise Oxford Dictionary has "Asian" (but not "Asia", for some reason!) as a main entry. The pronunciation given there is "ˈeɪʃ(ə)n, -ʒ(ə)n" so the two appear to be alternatives. The bulkier Chamber's Dictionary indicates the same, without using the IPA ("zh-" is given as an alternative).

erinja (نمایش مشخصات) 25 مهٔ 2010،‏ 14:49:36

Starkman, you know the word "Taj", like in "Taj Mahal"? That would be the aĵ sound. Taj would be written as "Taĵ".

At least, that's how Taj Mahal is pronounced where I live; it definitely isn't pronounced as "taĝ" here, at any rate.

Miland (نمایش مشخصات) 25 مهٔ 2010،‏ 17:09:39

erinja:Starkman, you know the word "Taj", like in "Taj Mahal"? That would be the aĵ sound. Taj would be written as "Taĵ".
That is a Westernised form; the original is Taĝ, as this wiki article indicates.

erinja (نمایش مشخصات) 25 مهٔ 2010،‏ 19:06:10

Miland:
erinja:Starkman, you know the word "Taj", like in "Taj Mahal"? That would be the aĵ sound. Taj would be written as "Taĵ".
That is a Westernised form; the original is Taĝ, as this wiki article indicates.
I well understand what you're saying, but I hope you're not implying that it isn't ok to use the widespread English pronunciation of a well-known foreign location to illustrate how to pronounce an Esperanto word.

After all, we pronounce hardly any loan words in English as they should be pronounced in the native pronunciation. "France" is an obvious example. Does this mean that I can't use the English pronunciation of "France" to illustrate how to pronounce something, since it is not how the word is pronounced by the French themselves? Does it mean I'm being a bad person if I tell someone that "pants" rhymes with "France"?

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I might add an interesting tidbit, however. The original Persian name of the Taj Mahal is spelled with the letter ج (ĝ). The Hindi version of Wikipedia calls it ताज महल, with the letter ज (ĝ). However, the Hindi-language version of Wikipedia gives the pronunciation as "/tɑʒ mə'hɑl/". The Devanagari alphabet used to write Hindi lacks a letter for /ʒ/ (ĵ). Interestingly, if you can believe Wikipedia, it seems that even in Hindi, which lacks a letter /ʒ/ (ĵ), the pronunciation nevertheless uses this sound.

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