Повідомлення: 34
Мова: English
angel32163 (Переглянути профіль) 25 червня 2010 р. 19:26:19
tommjames (Переглянути профіль) 25 червня 2010 р. 19:34:34
angel32163:"Rigardu la kuranta viron."Rigardu la kurantan viron.
angel32163:"Rigardu dun la viro kuras."Rigardu dum la viro kuras.
ceigered (Переглянути профіль) 25 червня 2010 р. 19:57:54
angel32163:Prepositions can be tricky too.Just a little nitpicking from me
- dum is technically a conjunction, because it acts as a way of joining phrases (e.g. with a noun, verb, and all those major things), where as prepositions are things that come before noun phrases (basically anything that acts in place of a noun, including a noun, a noun with it's adjective, etc).Well, technically dum is a preposition and a conjunction, it's freaky like that
, but in your example phrase it was acting as a conjunction. But the conjunction-preposition difference can be useful at times, especially when getting heads around accusatives and crazy grammar points like that. But if you know how a word is used just because you know somehow from seeing it used that way, then it's fine anyway.(for the prepositional yet conjunctional nature of dum:
- Dum du jaroj, mi manĝis nur poriĝon (prepositional use of "dum" - "for (during) two years, I ate only porridge")
- Dum du jaroj pasis, mi manĝis nur poriĝon (conjunctional use of "dum", "while two years passed, I ate only porridge").)
ceigered (Переглянути профіль) 25 червня 2010 р. 20:05:52
tommjames:Also while I'm here pretending to be useful, I might also add that "Rigardu la kurantan viron" carries the emphasis on the man (who happens to be running), while "Rigardu dum la viro kuras" carries the emphasis on the "looking" (for while ever that man keeps running).angel32163:"Rigardu la kuranta viron."Rigardu la kurantan viron.
angel32163:"Rigardu dun la viro kuras."Rigardu dum la viro kuras.
So you should be able, if you wish, to change the emphasis however you like. If you want to draw attention to the man, there's "la kurantan viron", if you want to draw atention to the running, there's "la kuron de la viro", and if you want to draw attention to the command of looking/regarding, or the entire scene where one is meant to be looking towards, there's "rigardu dum la viro kuras".
Chainy (Переглянути профіль) 25 червня 2010 р. 20:14:29
tommjames:Rigardu la kurantan viron.Oh no, I just knew this would come up eventually!
Reminds me of a long discussion we had about Ken Miner's article Mi vidis la knabon kuranta/kurantan tommjames (Переглянути профіль) 25 червня 2010 р. 20:36:17
Chainy:Well at least he wasn't running into a house (and falling over before he got to it)tommjames:Rigardu la kurantan viron.Oh no, I just knew this would come up eventually!
horsto (Переглянути профіль) 25 червня 2010 р. 20:54:13
Chainy:I think it's clear here, you can't insert into the object (la viron) an adjective without -n, therefore Rigardu la kuranta viron is wrong.tommjames:Rigardu la kurantan viron.Oh no, I just knew this would come up eventually!
angel32163 (Переглянути профіль) 25 червня 2010 р. 22:50:35
Rigardu la infanojn ludi.
Mi rigardis la ludantajn infanojn hieraŭ.
Mi rigardas dum la infanoj ludas.
La infanoj ludas kun alumetoj!!
ceigered (Переглянути профіль) 26 червня 2010 р. 03:19:29
angel32163:Okay, hope I get these right....Perfekte!
Rigardu la infanojn ludi.
Mi rigardis la ludantajn infanojn hieraŭ.
Mi rigardas dum la infanoj ludas.
La infanoj ludas kun alumetoj!!
Look at the children play,
I watched the playing children yesterday,
I'm watching while the children play,
The children play with matches.
(Diru al viaj infanoj ke ili devas ne ludi kun alumetoj
).(A question - would "Diru al viaj infanoj ke ili devu ne ludi kun alumetoj" be just as correct? Or should that be "Diru al viaj infanoj ke ili ne ludu kun alumetoj" (assuming the rest of the sentence is correct)?).
angel32163 (Переглянути профіль) 26 червня 2010 р. 03:58:17
(A question - would "Diru al viaj infanoj ke ili devu ne ludi kun alumetoj" be just as correct? Or should that be "Diru al viaj infanoj ke ili ne ludu kun alumetoj" (assuming the rest of the sentence is correct)?).This looks like one of those indirect command sentence within sentence examples. In David Richardson's book "Esperanto: Learning and Using the International Language, he says "...the verb tense in an "inside" sentence remains the same as if that sentence stood alone. So don't be let astray by the English habit of switching to some other tense" p.101
So I think that using "...ili ne ludu kun alumetoj" would be correct, as you are telling someone to command their children not to play with matches.
But...would you say "Diru al viajn infanojn..."?