erinja:Maybe the one (and only?) time that you used the full "Saluton", the person simply didn't hear you. It would be considered very rude in Esperanto to ignore someone's greeting, even if they did choose some weird greeting like "slu" or "'ton" or "zog"

As Horsto said, perhaps the person was psychologically elsewhere and the problem was not on qwertz's end but theirs (perhaps they were daydreaming about the etymology of "saluton" )?

(also, Erinja, is zog an actual greeting in a real language? That language would have to be pretty hip, sounds like Hungarian to me crossed with Volapük ).

This has resemblence to the T/V issue I think - the "formal" and "informal" hello distinction, that is. Perhaps "bontagon" could work as a more formal greeting, so that a contrast can be created (b'tag'n mejt just joking there).

On top of that, I suspect this transcends Esperanto itself. I certainly don't restrict myself to English only greetings with my friends, and in the same light it's in no way an issue if qwertz uses "slu" with his friends if they get the gist (since "slu" represents "salut" (FR), I wouldn't find it odd if non-Esperantists understood it way more than Esperantists).

I really like words like "slu" and "mojosa", but I don't use them very often. Slang exists in every living, spoken language, so why shouldn't Esperanto have slang words?

As the Borg would say "Resistance is futile!"

Slang is here to stay, and once another generation of gedenaskuloj are born, then it will inevitably increase. Personally - slang is my favourite part of any language.

jeeks:Slang exists in every living, spoken language, so why shouldn't Esperanto have slang words?

For the reasons outlined earlier in this thread?

Whoops, my fault. This was meant to be some kind of a rhetorical question. If a language is spoken, slang automatically comes to existence.

horsto:

qwertz:I visited two e-o meetings (IS 2008 in Biedenkopf/Germany, JES 2009 in Zakopane/Poland) and it didn't encounter to me that someone did greet me three peg "Sa-lu-ton". In my opinion "Sa-lu-ton" sounds denying. Something I definitivly not want to express to other people at a e-o meeting. As a beginner I tried it one time and got no answer. Sa-lu-ton just produced a communication wall.

That's really unbelievable: I tried it one time and got no answer.
He tried it once. Somebody who really thinks that one wrong word in greeting somebody else produces a communication wall doesn't have a language problem, that's a psychological problem.

Yes, I tried it one time and got no answer. Okay, how I understand your statement:

horsto thinks that,
- if he would be qwertz and tried Saluton the first time, and got no answer,
- and he (=horsto) would come to the result that the first word (=Saluton) he (=horsto) spoke, created a communication wall,
- than he (=horsto) would think that he (=horsto) has a psychological problem and not a language problem.

horsto, I'm sorry that I brought you into physiological trouble. It was not my intention.

RiotNrrd:I've got to admit that I always use "saluton" as my greeting to other Esperantists, and I have never experienced the communication wall that you describe.

I think you are drawing a conclusion from a single data point.

It was a 25qm 8-bed (bunk bed) youth hostel (backpacker) room with 3 people inside (1x Irish, 2 french). To two of them I spoke later (in English and German). They didn't bash me only why I tried to communicate not in the official "conference language" but just only some weired English-Esperanto mixup. They were aware of that I had not enough e-o vocabulary to communicate. So, I found a workaround to the saluton hassle. They were really relaxed.

I could try to contact them regarding that situation but probably they will not remember.

erinja:I use "saluton" all the time, most people I know use it all the time, and I think that if you said "saluton" and someone didn't respond, then the problem isn't the word; the problem is something else.

It is a very friendly and familiar greeting. There is zero need to make up your own new greeting. Saluton has served the purpose for a long time. I use it for everyone, both for people I have just met, and for my very best Esperanto friends. And they use it, too.

I will check by myself the next time at the JES in Burg/Spreewald if there is any personal need for Slu or not.

erinja:
You seem to think that because it has three syllables, that it isn't friendly or familiar. I think it's all in your head; I think that you suppose, perhaps based on something in your native language, that "saluton" is some kind of long and formal greeting that no-one uses, and that isn't true at all.

I still have to find out. I wrote at another thread

For me, "Sa-lu-ton" is like to pile three posts between me and the person I wanna talk to: "Sa"=pile 1 + "lu"=pile 2 + "ton" =pile 3. Once set it's seems to be difficult to walkaround. There are still enough borders excists. I don't wanna mark a border or distance between me and the other person. Okay I could show another person some respect with "Sa-lu-ton". But I start from the viewpoint that the other person is a friend and not a enemy I have to make distance of. Maybe a culture thing where I come from (Thuringia/South-East-Germany). In my opinion Slu makes a very nice relaxed and non-cramped communication ambient/aura between me and a new unknown person. But I'm aware that this could be different in several cultures. Including inner-German ones.

erinja:
----

Maybe the one (and only?) time that you used the full "Saluton", the person simply didn't hear you. It would be considered very rude in Esperanto to ignore someone's greeting, even if they did choose some weird greeting like "slu" or "'ton" or "zog"

Yes, maybe they were simply tired or they were shocked by my Piefkienesisch/Hochdeutsch e-o pronouncation. I also was shocked that I didn't got any answer.

ceigered:

erinja:Maybe the one (and only?) time that you used the full "Saluton", the person simply didn't hear you. It would be considered very rude in Esperanto to ignore someone's greeting, even if they did choose some weird greeting like "slu" or "'ton" or "zog"

As Horsto said, perhaps the person was psychologically elsewhere and the problem was not on qwertz's end but theirs (perhaps they were daydreaming about the etymology of "saluton" )?

Oehm, maybe.

ceigered:
On top of that, I suspect this transcends Esperanto itself. I certainly don't restrict myself to English only greetings with my friends, and in the same light it's in no way an issue if qwertz uses "slu" with his friends if they get the gist (since "slu" represents "salut" (FR), I wouldn't find it odd if non-Esperantists understood it way more than Esperantists).

I do the same onsite in Germany. What's the matter to be free to use "Hallo", "Hi", "Guten Toch", "Servus", "Moin, moin" or "Grüß di" etc? Same for Good Bye greetings "ciao", "tschau", "bis denne" etc? Why I should restrict to one greeting?

jeeks:I really like words like "slu" and "mojosa", but I don't use them very often. Slang exists in every living, spoken language, so why shouldn't Esperanto have slang words?

It would be interesting to find out how that krokodili slang word were brought into esperantujo. Surprisly, E-o survived that slang-intruder.

jeeks:I really like words like "slu" and "mojosa", but I don't use them very often. Slang exists in every living, spoken language, so why shouldn't Esperanto have slang words?

I assume thats the nature of Slang, too. To be capable to switch it off if necessary.

Evildela:As the Borg would say "Resistance is futile!"

Slang is here to stay, and once another generation of gedenaskuloj are born, then it will inevitably increase. Personally - slang is my favourite part of any language.

Take care, Slang is nasty.

qwertz, you seem to have missed something very fundamental.

The word "Saluton" does not place any distance whatsoever between you and another person. It puts up NO walls, it is NO impediment to closeness & friendliness.

Using "saluton" is completely relaxed and friendly. I have no idea at all why you seem to think that it sounds formal and unfriendly, but if you think that, you are wrong. It seems like it reflects your cultural bias, and not the reality of Esperanto usage.

Maybe if you spend your time studying Esperanto instead of spending your time making up new slang, next time you go to an Esperanto event, you will no longer have a need to speak in a mix of Esperanto and English.

erinja:qwertz, you seem to have missed something very fundamental.

The word "Saluton" does not place any distance whatsoever between you and another person. It puts up NO walls, it is NO impediment to closeness & friendliness.

Like mentioned above, I will give it a try at the next JES meeting.

erinja:
Using "saluton" is completely relaxed and friendly. I have no idea at all why you seem to think that it sounds formal and unfriendly, but if you think that, you are wrong. It seems like it reflects your cultural bias, and not the reality of Esperanto usage.

Yes, probably it's a culture thing.

erinja:
Maybe if you spend your time studying Esperanto instead of spending your time making up new slang, next time you go to an Esperanto event, you will no longer have a need to speak in a mix of Esperanto and English.

Apart of "Slu" I didn't spend time to create another (mass of) Slang. It was just "Slu" and nothing else. I definitly deny the vacant(?) position of the master of e-o Slang.

Yes, I will follow up with studying E-o using the self-learning course by Stano MARČEK (Rekta metodo). 100 pages should be possible to grasp until the JES meeting. Btw. "Saluton" is translated there to German "Hallo" and first used at page 33.

PS: Just to get that out of my head: Maybe Slu is the nickname of Saluton and Slang are sentences with "nicknamed" words(?).