Psittakos:Thus, Esperanto will be easy for westerns, but less easy for chinese, arabic or hindu people. For they, I think, there's no a big difference to learn English or learn Esperanto.

I agree that Esperanto is easier to learn for some people than for others (something that is almost completely inevitable for any language and therefore not something to be taken seriously as a critique of Esperanto, as long as we're not talking about complex languages like Lojban that are equally difficult to everyone and hence pointless as an IAL), but to extrapolate from this that Esperanto is not significantly easier for people of the east than English, is frankly absurd.

Even if we accept that Esperanto roots are largely meaningless to people from Asian countries (which should, in principle, apply more or less equally so to words from English.. were it not for the fact that English words just happen to be more familiar to them because the English language itself is so widespread) the simple fact that, for example, there are no irregular verbs in Esperanto immediately rids you of many long hours of tedious and difficult rote memorisation. The simple 1 letter 1 sound orthography saves you from the absolute monstrosity that is the English pronunciation system, and all of the associated headaches that go with that. The productive root/affix system and morphology (which actually has some striking similarities with some eastern languages) makes it vastly easier to comprehend and express ideas on the fly than it is in English. And on it goes.

I have heard reports that some Chinese say they found Esperanto no easier than English. As far as I'm concerned they are being disingenuous and I don't believe them. Evidence in the real world is what you should be on the lookout for.. there are innumerable Chinese you can find, should you care to seek them out, who will confirm they found Esperanto a snap compared to English. The same goes for Koreans, Japanese, Iranians etc. I would think their opinions of greater relevance to the question than the theoretical musings of some Esperanto critics from the west.

ceigered:A big problem with the one sound has one letter rule is that it doesn't allow for allophones (sounds that achieve the same thing but have minor differences), which limits flexibility in the spoken language considerably

Where is the problem? Esperanto does allow for allophones. Indeed if any variation in the sounds of the letters were completely prohibited Esperanto would be an absolute nightmare to speak.

http://bertilow.com/pmeg/skribo_elparolo/elparol...

tommjames:

ceigered:A big problem with the one sound has one letter rule is that it doesn't allow for allophones (sounds that achieve the same thing but have minor differences), which limits flexibility in the spoken language considerably

Where is the problem? Esperanto does allow for allophones. Indeed if any variation in the sounds of the letters were completely prohibited Esperanto would be an absolute nightmare to speak.

http://bertilow.com/pmeg/skribo_elparolo/elparol...

Sorry, I should have written "one letter has one sound". It was meant to add to Darkweasel's comment, not detract from it. Making correction now.

Psittakos:Impose a western language to the whole world is neutral? I don't think so.

Psittakos, why is it that virtually every time you appear on this site, you start making angry rants about Esperanto? Nobody's imposing anything. Esperanto is just an option. If you're happy with English as the international language, then that's great. I mean, why not? Maybe you're right - maybe everyone's happy learning English. And, so even if it is considerably more difficult to learn than Esperanto, then maybe we should just be thinking "Who cares?!". Maybe this is how the majority of the world will continue to think. But I would suggest that there are a significant number of people out there who would benefit greatly if Esperanto gained more traction and wider acceptance. I've had direct experience of this from years of teaching English as a foreign language!

You might be wondering, why should I care? After all, English is my native language. Maybe I should be happy with things as they are!? It's great, I don't even have to bother learning any other foreign language, and to be honest, even if I do, then most will end up answering me in English anyway, unless I manage to gain an excellent level of fluency in a foreign language. But, it's a hell of a battle for a native English speaker to reach such a high level of proficiency in a foreign language. I mean as soon as anyone notices that you're just learning the language and you show even the slightest hint of hesitancy (normal for beginners), they switch to English! Rather than question English native speakers about why they want to learn Esperanto, maybe you should be asking us just why we bother learning any foreign language at all!

Ultimately, most native English speakers learn foreign languages purely out of interest, not necessity. And I include Esperanto in this. The reality is that for native English speakers, it's not absolutely necessary to learn foreign languages - after all, they already speak what most regard as the international language. If you're German, for example, and you learn English in school, then you can feel pretty comfortable about the usefulness of this effort. I mean, even if a German person never goes to an English-speaking country, then the chances are that English will come in handy, due the international acceptance of it. But, if you're English (as I am), then when you learn German in school (as I did), then you're deep down a bit confused about just how useful this is ever going to be (as I was), which has a considerable influence on your progress in it! Ok, so years later, I've found myself living in Germany! But, most of the people I know who learned German in school have absolutely no use for it whatsover!

So, given the fact that the majority of native English speakers tend to learn foreign languages in schools in a very half-hearted fashion (for obvious reasons) and even then they very rarely end up actually being in a situation where they need these languages, then why the hell not learn Esperanto!? At least Esperanto gives the native English speaker a broad overview of how the European languages are connected with each other. Some would say, well why not Latin? Well, yes, but that's such a headache with the grammar that it's a big turn off. And a knowledge of Esperanto has the value of then helping native English speakers learn other languages should they ever need to. Personally, I can really see the value of Esperanto in schools in the UK, for example. The current efforts towards learning German, French, Spanish etc at schools in the UK result in little more than a farce - the results are dreadful!

By the way, my job is taking me to Luxembourg now, but I'll be living in Thionville in France. Seems I'm going to have to turn my attention to French now! So far, I've been encouraged by the fact that my knowledge of Esperanto seems to be pretty useful in this regard, as a lot of the roots are clearly from French. The pronunciation is a hell of a challenge, though!

tommjames:I have heard reports that some Chinese say they found Esperanto no easier than English...I don't believe them. Evidence in the real world is what you should be on the lookout for..

At the banquet of the Universala Kongreso in 2008 in Rotterdam an older Japanese man told me that he found English and Esperanto equally difficult. I believed him, and the reason in my view is that, apart from his age, while English might be expected to be more difficult because its irregularities, learners are (or can easily be) immersed in an English-speaking culture which is becoming increasingly dispersed because of technology and the mass media. This compensates for the difficulties to some extent.
I doubt whether the momentum of English as an international language of professionals can be stopped. But Esperanto may have a role where personal relations between individuals are concerned, where the relationship is not one of power.

Psittakos:
c) If you say "universo" why not to say "universa" but "universala"? Are not those irregularities.

It pains me to hear your complaints, when you can't even be bothered looking in a dictionary to find out that you're actually talking nonsense.

Belmiro:Everybody in the world ( I think )speaks with tongue. That is a kind of Esperanto language. (!!!)

Sorry, I don't understand that. Did you mean "Everybody in the world ( I think )speaks with one language(=tongue)."? Could you explain that more in detail?

The biggest Esperanto conferences are in Asian lands. Enough said. End of story.

Esperanto already has a speaker base. In the middle of a horse race, per se,would you change your bet from the horse in front to the horse in the rear because you like it better,or your friends think it is a prettier horse?

Doesn't matter if EO isn't winning any beauty pageants. It stands the test of time. Unlike 'new coca cola' or 'coke crystal'. Can you find me a can of coke crystal, that clear coke cola from the 90's? Well I liked how it looked, as opposed to regular coke, and I won't drink a coke until you bring me coke crystal.

Right. All other options for a universal language, at this moment, are as successful as coke crystal is today. I'm not holding my breath looking for a can. I'm not betting on losing ponies, or learning a language with fewer speakers than Eo now has. And if 150 hours is too much of an investment in time for you to make, go away.

Nobody killed your ancestors and forced them to speak Eo. It won't happen. Spanish...yes. English...yes. French...yes.
To the thousands of Native American children who were not allowed to speak their own words in favor of a language someone else thought was better...Shame on the flaming troll who is telling us Esperanto isn't good enough.

The end.

Miland: But Esperanto may have a role where personal relations between individuals are concerned, where the relationship is not one of power.

Indeed, it probably helps create some relations.

@Philodice:
All native languages would have to have blood on their hands somewhere, and I believe that as EO gains momentum it will too eventually.

Psittakos:English isn't easy for some people, neutral or acctualy international too, but at least is already accepted... why to make an international mess to change it for something alike?

This is the part I don't understand. How does it create a mess if people learn Esperanto in their spare time? Or Chinese? Or Farsi? English is not as international as you might think: try speaking it in France or the French part of Belgium sometime. Most of the population there may speak or understand English but very few of them will actually communicate in it. Should we force everyone to learn and use English? I believe doing so would cause exactly the problem you believe already exists: imposing a western language on the world.

For me, what distinguishes Esperanto from English as an international language is the ideal behind it. If someone learns Esperanto it means they want to communicate in Esperanto, not that they have to. I don't want anyone to speak English simply because there's no other way for me to understand them. If someone speaks English because they want to I wholeheartedly encourage it but I believe the language used in international communication should be decided by the people. If you don't believe Esperanto is a means to this end that's fine but you're on a site whose purpose is to teach it.