About "tiom" / "tiel" :

Since "tiom" specifies a quantity/amount, and "tiel" a manner/way, I usually keep that distinction in mind when deciding which one to use; that is, I would use "tiom" for factual or statistical comparisons and "tiel" to emphasise a marginal or specifical occurrence carried by the comparison.

"Mi ne estas tiom bona kiom vi."
I'm not as good as you. (that's a fact; I have a lot to learn; you surpass me).

"Mi ne estas tiel bona kiel vi."
I'm not as good as you. (not in that way; not in that regard; I am merely less effective in a certain specific case).

This is just my impression but I might be wrong.

I also think this is getting way too elaborate for beginners...

mnlg:
I would never imply that I want to correct a native speaker, but I believe you mean "if/then".

I hereby grant you all rights to correct this native speaker's errors. *smiles*

mnlg:
Maybe you should contact the group and ask if they would be willing to sing it for you with your new lyrics.

While it's understandable, I'm pretty sure that my translation doesn't scan lyrically. I've tried singing it, and man, it soooo doesn't fit. lol But I bet TMBG might be open to recording an Esperanto version. hmmm...

RiotNrrd:
"Mi scias ke li scias ke ŝi scias ke mi ne scias tiun."

Complexity! But it's deceptively simple, when broken down, isn't it. Thanks.

erinja:Regarding "tiom" and "tiel" - it has been my understanding that "tiom" is more emphatic, in the cases when you can use either.

So tiel is the right choice for this, I think, since it simply appears small, not tiny.

I've posted the lyrics on my personal pages (not a website per se, just the space that comes with my internet, where I dump all my junk).
Kial La Suno Brilas?

But for people who'd rather not visit an outside link, here are the lyrics again, hopefully revised to pseudo-perfection. *grins* Although I don't yet know how to convert the supersigned letters in html. I'll fix that when I learn. I'm not even sure why some of my letters in this show as supersigns, and some don't.

Kial La Suno Brilas?
(La Suno Estas Amaso de Inkandeska Gaso)

de Lou Singer kaj Hy Zaret, 1959

La suno estas amaso de inkandeska gaso
Giganta nuklea forno
Kie hidrogeno heliumiĝas
Kun temperaturo de milionoj de gradoj

La suno estas varmega, la suno ne estas
Loko kie ni povos loĝi
Sed ĉi tie sur la Tero vivo ne eblus
Sen la lumo kiun ĝi donas

Ni bezonas ĝian lumon, Ni bezonas ĝian varmegon
La suna lumo kiun ni serĉas.
La sunlumo venas de la atoma energio
De nia suno

La suno estas amaso de inkandeska gaso
Giganta nuklea forno
Kie hidrogeno heliumiĝas
Kun temperaturo de milionoj de gradoj

La suno estas tiom varma…

La suno estas tiom varma ke ĉio sur ĝi estas gasoj
Aluminio, kupro, fero, kaj multaj aliaj

La suno estas granda…

Se la suno estus kava, milionoj da teroj teniĝus en ĝi
Kaj tamen, ĝi estas nur mezgranda stelo

La suno estas malproksima…

Ĉirkaŭ 93.000.000 mejlojn for
Kaj tio estas kial ĝi ŝajnas tiel malgranda

Tamen eĉ kiam ĝi estas nevidata
La suno brilas dum nokto kaj tago

Ni bezonas ĝian lumon, Ni bezonas ĝian varmegon
La suna lumo kiun ni serĉas.
La sunlumo venas de la atoma energio
De nia suno

Sciencistoj malkovris ke la suno estas maŝinego por frakasi atomojn
Varmo kaj lumo de la suno kaŭziĝas de nukleaj reakcioj inter
Hidrogeno, nitrogeno, karbono, kaj heliumo

La suno estas amaso de inkandeska gaso
Giganta nuklea forno
Kie hidrogeno heliumiĝas
Kun temperaturo de milionoj da gradoj

DesertNaiad:I'm not even sure why some of my letters in this show as supersigns, and some don't.

Must be because of me. There's a button on the far right of the top bar in the message editor, marked "sx / ŝ", that will automatically convert all of your x-letters to supersigned characters. I use it when composing my replies, and I must have converted your lyrics as I quoted your messages.

mnlg:

DesertNaiad:I'm not even sure why some of my letters in this show as supersigns, and some don't.

Must be because of me. There's a button on the far right of the top bar in the message editor, marked "sx / ŝ", that will automatically convert all of your x-letters to supersigned characters. I use it when composing my replies, and I must have converted your lyrics as I quoted your messages.

Ooh! Thank you, I went back and fixed it.

mnlg:Just a small note on an otherwise very good explanation, to point out that "tiu" is used to specificate/locate an individual (person or item), either a member of a generally homogeneous group, or a human being (when there is no explicit group stated, the default is mankind), so that in your sentence above I would instinctly translate with "I know that he knows that she knows that I don't know that one".

To translate "that thing" I would normally use "tio".

Yes, the tio/tiu distinction is a particular blind-spot of my own.

To defend my choice (although it may be entirely indefensible), I made the assumption that "the thing that I don't know" has been specified in some previous (though unwritten here) statement. My understanding is that kio/tio concern subjects that are unspecified, and the implication that a specification had been made earlier is why I chose "tiu".

However, I could be quite wrong in my usage.

RiotNrrd: Yes, the tio/tiu distinction is a particular blind-spot of my own. To defend my choice (although it may be entirely indefensible), I made the assumption that "the thing that I don't know" has been specified in some previous (though unwritten here) statement. My understanding is that kio/tio concern subjects that are unspecified, and the implication that a specification had been made earlier is why I chose "tiu". However, I could be quite wrong in my usage.

Yes, that's essentially correct. the -o correlatives stand for things that aren't named/specified, and the -u correlatives are *specifying* something that is named. The -o correlatives stand by themselves, but the -u correlatives are always tied to another word (the one that they are specifying).

kio mordis min? = What bit me?
Tiu hundo mordis vin = That dog (and not any of the other dogs) bit you.

I think that this is confusing because the thing specified by the -u correlative isn't always written or said. For example. Consider

kiu homo ŝatas vin? = Which person likes you.

that's perfectly understandable. kiu is asking about which specific person likes you. obviously we use kiu and not kio.

However, In Esperanto, we commonly drop the word homo in this context.

kiu homo ŝatas vin? = which (person) likes you?
(or who likes you?)

kiu iris al la kinejo? = which person went to the movies?
= who went to the movies?

on the other hand,

kio iris al la kinejo = what went to the movies? (was it a person? a car? a dog? a little green man?

hope that helps

... Although in context, let's say you're overlooking a bunch of sniffy happy dogs, if you said to someone "Kiu sxatas vin?", you would probably be referring to which *dog* likes you.

DesertNaiad:Kun temperaturo de milionoj de gradoj

Shouldn't it be "Kun temperaturo de milionoj da gradoj"?

erinja:We finally agreed upon "se la suno estus kava, milionoj da teroj teniĝus en ĝi".

Couldn't one also use the meaning of the sun could contain millions of earths using enhavi or enteni?

"se la suno estus kava, tiu enhavus/entenus milionoj da teroj"

mccambjd:Shouldn't it be "Kun temperaturo de milionoj da gradoj"?

Yes, that's definitely more correct. Thanks.

Couldn't one also use the meaning of the sun could contain millions of earths using enhavi or enteni?

Yes, but that would have required switching the sentence to active. Our version kept it in passive. Yet another solution would have been "aranĝiĝi", as in "milionoj da Teroj aranĝiĝus en ĝi". If I remember correctly, "aranĝi" also translates "to accomodate".

"se la suno estus kava, tiu enhavus/entenus milionoj da teroj"

miljonojn
and perhaps, "ĝi" instead of "tiu", but this is just personal preference.