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"e"

de k1attack, 4 septembrie 2010

Contribuții/Mesaje: 31

Limbă: English

Roberto12 (Arată profil) 11 septembrie 2010, 15:36:00

He hereby clarifies that it's deliberate rideto.gif

That comment about a possible new word for the radio pretty much justifies my position. I think I would only be violating the rules if I crossed a phoneme boundary, which would be the case if I pronounced SES as [sis], for example.

erinja (Arată profil) 11 septembrie 2010, 20:21:03

No, the radio word idea is pretty much like how in English, radio people might say "niner" instead of nine. It doesn't mean that "niner" is acceptable instead of "nine" for everyday use, only that in limited situations where audio is poor, there's a substitute word.

It's the same reason that we have radio call alphabets rather than spelling out ay, bee, see, dee, etc.

The existence of special allowances made for radio doesn't mean that you should act against the fundamento in your everyday speech. When you intentionally mispronounce words, it's pretty much like saying you'd prefer to make up your own language rather than speak the one Zamenhof came up with.

Roberto12 (Arată profil) 11 septembrie 2010, 20:48:15

Let's not make a mountain out of a molehill here. Slight variability within phonemes is very common and not a bad thing. I never "intentionally mispronounce" Esperanto words - in fact, I make an effort to get it right, e.g. I make a constant effort to rhoticise (I'm non-rhotic by default).

ceigered (Arată profil) 12 septembrie 2010, 14:52:46

This actually is an interesting theme though, since very few Romance speakers except those of the more dynamically evolving Romance languages like French and Portuguese would ever really have to worry about phonetics in EO, where as for Germanic speakers amongst a few others, where our vowels (and consonants) are more dynamic and have a different tone and a bit of sandhi happening, EO seems overly simplistic in its phonology (well, scrap that damn crisp rolled R rido.gif, it's not a murky enough sound haha). So I suspect that many a Germanic speaker using Esperanto would probably carry a bit of that sing-songy "northerner" accent into their EO, especially when certain vowels meet certain consonants.

Whether that grossly affects communication or not I can't imagine. I suspect that, just as many Germans can speak English with very understandable accents despite having different vowel qualities in many a case, the same might be for Germanic speakers speaking Esperanto (provided the vowels stay within a certain range, e.g. as Roberto said, not "sis" instead of "ses". It'd certainly be a bit of an interesting experience I'd imagine to talk to a germanic speaker of EO for the first time if you were from another language base, just as I find Chinese EO speakers to have a very interesting (and nice) accent due to that Mandarin twang.

k1attack (Arată profil) 14 septembrie 2010, 13:05:47

What I could have said:

Do the Esperanto "e" and "o" sound like the Irish/Scottish/Indian monophthongal "ay" and "oh" sounds (/e:/ and /o:/) ?

erinja (Arată profil) 14 septembrie 2010, 15:17:10

k1attack:What I could have said:

Do the Esperanto "e" and "o" sound like the Irish/Scottish/Indian monophthongal "ay" and "oh" sounds (/e:/ and /o:/) ?
You could have said that, but I think everyone understood your question perfectly even without that, and you got your answer from several different people. Right?

qwertz (Arată profil) 14 septembrie 2010, 15:25:04

Maybe Shavian could help? I mean it was created to realize the "one-letter-one-sound" idea for English. So in Shavian the Esperanto "e" seems to meet the Shavian ash or egg? I believe it's egg, isn't?

ceigered (Arată profil) 15 septembrie 2010, 00:18:44

qwertz:Maybe Shavian could help? I mean it was created to realize the "one-letter-one-sound" idea for English. So in Shavian the Esperanto "e" seems to meet the Shavian ash or egg? I believe it's egg, isn't?
Last time I checked only some South Africans and fewer Australians had a habit of turning the "a" in Ash to the "e" in "egg", and this computer won't let me see the font on that Shavian website, so I'm going to assume something may be amiss...

Alciona (Arată profil) 15 septembrie 2010, 00:53:41

I agree that 'e' in Esperanto would sound like the Shavian 'egg' if 'egg' were pronounced with a Received Pronunciation accent.

Donniedillon (Arată profil) 15 septembrie 2010, 02:34:58

Shavian as an alternate alphabet for Esperanto came up in a thread a while back. I like the idea and at one point was trying to memorize the script but unfortunately stalled out. Real life allows for only so many fancies malgajo.gif
This is where I was getting my info...[here]

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