Pesan: 35
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Miland (Tunjukkan profil) 10 Oktober 2010 16.24.49
The exams on this website are short, but IMO a good objective indication. I am not overly concerned to suggest improvements.
sudanglo (Tunjukkan profil) 10 Oktober 2010 19.34.03
Have you ever seen one at Edukado.net? Link please, if you have, if poss.
I haven't yet found my way round to the point of getting specimen material downloaded - or maybe they are still setting up the transfer from the old system to the new set-up.
I seem to have got to some dead ends in my wanderings (taken me back to home page).
If advanced stuff exists, I expect it's there or will be eventually. In the meantime, I thought it an interesting topic to discuss what such a test should include.
Miland (Tunjukkan profil) 10 Oktober 2010 20.18.04
sudanglo:The question is what would an advanced test for Esperanto (language knowlege..Have you ever seen one at Edukado.net? Link please, if you have, if poss.Edukado.net has a link that may be useful. Specimen examinations are found in the book Esperanto de nivelo al nivelo, available from UEA as well as EAB.
For ILEI, there's this link. The specimen intermediate exams are found on pages 28-37.
sudanglo (Tunjukkan profil) 11 Oktober 2010 08.52.02
Clearly, they have muddled actual knowledge of the language with skills that are a function of intelligence and education.
I certainly would agree with the idea that it is very much to the political advantage of the Esperantists to play along with this game.
But I think that for internal use in the movado for grading the advancement of students of Esperanto we need our own scales.
90% of the time devoted to foreign language learning of national languages at the lower levels is, of course, devoted to absorbing the mass of irregularity and unnecessary complication which historical evolution has deposited in the language. This barely exists in the case of Esperanto.
It looks as though a KER graded Esperanto exam is going to be a soft option compared to an exam in French or German graded at the same level.
Say level B1 requires X-thousand hours of study from an average student, then the same level will, by the usual rule of thumb, require X-hundred hours of study for the Esperantist examinee.
Miland (Tunjukkan profil) 11 Oktober 2010 11.05.38
sudanglo:I get the impression that this a prime example of Euro-waffle.My own impression from a very brief look at the English version of the document is that this is a carefully thought out framework for the teaching of languages and their assessment, within the context of general education. However, I am not a qualified teacher or examiner of languages. What is your experience in such matters?
erinja (Tunjukkan profil) 11 Oktober 2010 11.43.16
Esperanto already has internal standards and exams; there are a couple available. The ILEI exam and the UEA exam are well-known examples.
The development of the KER for Esperanto was a big deal and a lot of work went into that. It gains Esperanto some recognition also in the "non-Esperanto" world, because now we have a framework of reference that is accepted by the wider language-learning community, not just in our isolated movement. As I see it, Esperanto has an abundance of internal standards and internal exams, and the creation of KER was a welcome application of international standards to Esperanto.
By the way, since Esperanto simply isn't that difficult, I doubt that anyone could write a test of Esperanto grammar that you would judge to be sufficiently difficult to be called advanced. You didn't like the sentence correction section of the C-level exam at lernu, but to me it's no joke. It forces you to distinguish between what is genuinely wrong, what is bad style but not wrong, and what is correct. It's not the perfect exam, but I think that for something that's corrected automatically, and not by a person, it's just fine.
A really good exam would have to have an oral element as well, which is why we have ILEI and UEA exams available at various Esperanto events.
sudanglo (Tunjukkan profil) 11 Oktober 2010 12.39.50
Nevertheless, I still wonder what would constitute an advanced exam in Esperanto - by the criterion that it is difficult even for a 'sperta' Esperantisto.
erinja (Tunjukkan profil) 11 Oktober 2010 14.34.37
The bottom line is that Esperanto really isn't that hard, so it's hard to see what would constitute a truly difficult exam for someone who speaks well, without scraping the bottom of the barrel (asking for knowledge of arcane vocabulary)
qwertz (Tunjukkan profil) 11 Oktober 2010 15.33.15
sudanglo:All praise to those who worked on the KER tests for Esperanto. And the Lernu site is a great achievement.Making rhymes in realtime without any prearrangement could be an "advanced selfmade e-o exam", too.
Nevertheless, I still wonder what would constitute an advanced exam in Esperanto - by the criterion that it is difficult even for a 'sperta' Esperantisto.
I.e. Bertsolaritza or similar traditions. I assume Hip Hop Freestyle isn't your kind of thing(?)
Miland (Tunjukkan profil) 11 Oktober 2010 17.12.34
sudanglo:I still wonder what would constitute an advanced exam .. difficult even for a 'sperta' Esperantisto.I believe that ILEI at one time had altnivelaj examinations but they stopped holding them because there were so few takers. However, if you feel that merely passing the meznivelaj exams is not hard enough for you, I suggest that you try getting a higher grade (Bona or even Tre Bona) in them at the UK in Copenhagen next year.