Meddelanden: 44
Språk: English
Rogir (Visa profilen) 27 oktober 2010 12:25:07
TheMartianGeek (Visa profilen) 27 november 2010 20:52:59
@Miland:
- The adjective goes first in Esperanto? Huh. I'm used to the noun coming before the adjective (even though the only language I'm fluent in has the adjective first).
- Those all sound good. It's being used in a sarcastic context, so "Tute ne!" would probably work as well.
- Actually, that was just my example sentence to show a passive infinitive. The sentence I'm actually using it in involves a complex verb form, "...can be X-ed".
- All right, cool.
@sudanglo:
- Ah, yes, the three different participial endings...in this context, it sounds like I might need the future participle: "[they] can be entered" - "povas esti enirota".
- Hm. Would the hyphenated noun be the usual form for a case where a word that would normally be a noun is being used as an adjective, then (the "ham" in "ham sandwich")? Would that especially be common when the noun in question already has another adjective with it?
- The OVS word order would only really appear when the passive verb actually has an object ("by" whatever), wouldn't it? Like, it would work for "The work was done by our president", but not for just "The work was done".
And by the way, can't I use "iaj" as an adjective, as in "iaj pomoj" - "some apples"?
sudanglo (Visa profilen) 27 november 2010 23:14:50
I don't want to be dogmatic about 'ham sandwich'. If you prefer adj + noun, fine, I'm sure that you will be understood.
There's often a genuine choice between various alternatives. For example a beer festival, might be bierfesto, bierofesto, biera festo.
The translation of they can be entered depends on the meaning of 'entered' here.
The students can be entered for ... - la studentoj povas esti registritaj (aŭ ekzamenotaj). The museum can be entered at the rear - la muzeo estas enirebla per la malantaŭa enirejo.
'Can be X-ed' will often (but not always) be rendered in Esperanto as 'estas X-ebla'.
When linguists discuss subject/verb/object order (SVO) they are, as I understand it, referring to the order in a main declarative clause in the active voice.
Obviously in a passive clause the grammatical subject is the thing that the verb acts on. And in relative clauses the object will often precede the verb - jen la virino, kiun mi amas.
Iuj pomoj=some apples; iaj pomoj=some kind of/sortof apples.
Terpomo ne estas ia pomo - fritoj ne estas fruktaĵoj.
yugary (Visa profilen) 28 november 2010 05:57:20
TheMartianGeek:Estas facile trompiĝi.
3) How would I express a passive infinitive in Esperanto? For instance, in the sentence "It is easy to be fooled", how would "to be fooled" translate? "Esti mistifikita"?
ceigered (Visa profilen) 28 november 2010 07:42:30
yugary:And then there's other things like "Trompiĝ(ad)o estas facila".TheMartianGeek:Estas facile trompiĝi.
3) How would I express a passive infinitive in Esperanto? For instance, in the sentence "It is easy to be fooled", how would "to be fooled" translate? "Esti mistifikita"?
BTW, is "Trompiĝi estas facila" possible, or should that "facila" be "facile"? On one hand, "trompiĝi" there is being treated as a verb-noun, on the other hand, it has the physical form of a verb. Being such a gray area, what's other people's preference in that sort of situation other than rephrasing it? As with how Sumerian treats noun gender, I prefer to take the syntactically correct route
darkweasel (Visa profilen) 28 november 2010 08:39:29
ceigered:In such cases you always have to use the adverb ending -e in Esperanto.
BTW, is "Trompiĝi estas facila" possible, or should that "facila" be "facile"? On one hand, "trompiĝi" there is being treated as a verb-noun, on the other hand, it has the physical form of a verb. Being such a gray area, what's other people's preference in that sort of situation other than rephrasing it? As with how Sumerian treats noun gender, I prefer to take the syntactically correct route
erinja (Visa profilen) 28 november 2010 14:47:51
Even if the verb is being used as a quasi-noun, it's got a verb ending, so it's a verb.Similarly we could say "Naĝado estas facila" (swimming is easy). The noun is really a verb in a noun form, but it's unambiguously a noun (-o) therefore the adjective (-a) is the appropriate describing word.
ceigered (Visa profilen) 29 november 2010 09:57:36
. I'm looking at approximately 99% of you! (also, I said "syntactically" back there for some equally arbitrary reason. Sorry about that...)
Anyway, back to questions, so you'd say "Trompiĝi estas facile"? Also, in this case, since iĝi is a verb root, is "trompiĝo estas facila" possible or do we need that -ad- in there as a rule? I tend to avoid the -ad- if I can based on whether there are any confusing meanings that the noun root may present (e.g. Manĝo estas facila).
erinja (Visa profilen) 29 november 2010 14:58:28
IvoG (Visa profilen) 1 december 2010 11:15:11
so a simple one first - i'm doing the "Bildoj kaj demandoj" course and i came across 2 words for "with": "per" and "kun" - is there a difference between them or are they interchangable?