Evildela:(Lots of smart stuff.)

If you weren't so young and so far away, I'd ask you to marry me.

Evildela:I would have learnt Volapuk if I knew it had more speakers

I think the biggest problem for Volapük is the lack of a "lernu!" equivalent for it. EO has many sites that help teach it in many different ways. Heck, I learnt most my EO by speaking English here. Volapük though, unfortunately, lost its support base earlier on so it really needs a good boost (leno gudik!). Ah, also, Volapük needed a good, hard and solid reform to cut down some of the parts of the language that make it to some extent internationally unfriendly, but at least in practice things like differentiation between ü and u etc aren't so important since they often occur where context is strong enough to support the meaning without them.

To me, Esperanto without Volapük in the world is only half as good as if both are there.

For fun: Hotel Volapük

Hotel V.:Genießen Sie Ihren Aufenthalt im mediterranen Stil der Zimmer und des Restaurants mit Wintergarten und Terrasse.
Volapük war die erste Kunstsprache, die wirklich gesprochen wurde. Sie ist Vorläufer von Esperanto und wurde von Prälat Johann-Martin Schleyer (1831-1912) erfunden. Er war Pfarrer bei uns in Litzelstetten am Bodensee.

Enjoy your stay in the Mediterranean style of the rooms and restuarants with wintergarden(?)(s) and terrace(s).

Volapük was the first artificial language to actually become spoken. It was the precursor (for-leaper? ) of the-unbeliever's-language Esperanto and became founded by JMS. He was a pastor near us in Litzelstetten at Lake Constance.

Mit Hilfe von Googletranslate

ceigered:

Hotel V.:Genießen Sie Ihren Aufenthalt im mediterranen Stil der Zimmer und des Restaurants mit Wintergarten und Terrasse.
Volapük war die erste Kunstsprache, die wirklich gesprochen wurde. Sie ist Vorläufer von Esperanto und wurde von Prälat Johann-Martin Schleyer (1831-1912) erfunden. Er war Pfarrer bei uns in Litzelstetten am Bodensee.

Enjoy your stay in the Mediterranean style of the rooms and restuarants with wintergarden(?)(s) and terrace(s).

Volapük was the first artificial language to actually become spoken. It was the precursor (for-leaper? ) of the-unbeliever's-language Esperanto and became founded by JMS. He was a pastor near us in Litzelstetten at Lake Constance.

A few little errors in your translation: Wintergarten and Terrasse aren't plural (which would be Wintergärten and Terrassen respectively), bei uns in Litzelstetten in this case means "here in Litzelstetten", not "near us". Also, wurde gesprochen and wurde erfunden mean just "was spoken" and "was invented/founded", don't translate them literally with "became".

witeowl:If you weren't so young and so far away, I'd ask you to marry me.

Haha, your the best, you made my day

witeowl:

qwertz:Hhm, I did an non-proper comment because I mainly had "way of thinking" for that "-ist-" suffix in mind.

Ah, yes, I have also heard of people referring to the "ist" suffix as giving a militant, activist meaning. I simply mean it in the hobby/speaker meaning. I find it too tedious to say "speaker/learner of Esperanto", so I rely on "Esperantist". I would do well to remember the connotations some bring to the table. Perhaps I should start saying Esperantulo?

It did encounter to me that young German esperantists name themselves "Espi" if they talk in German to other German Esperantists. Maybe that was triggered from the name of Esperanto Desperado which often named "Espo Despo". Kim is/was the singer of Espo Despo and probably one of the persons who supports contemporary E-o music very strong. If Kim is listed at an European E-o party/festo this will trigger an "two-finger-click-signal"(de: "Fingerschnipsen") and E-o uloj start making party (de: "Party Stimmung"). Kim also saved one of the last JES vespero in Zakopane which was granted to E-o karaoke but crashed to deficient technical equipment. Yes, eobo karaokeo failed, but 2 MC's saved the vesperon: Kim and Emmanuel (musicans). I only have participated at two Junularo Festoj (IS 2008 Biedenkopf/JES 2009 Zakopane) but I saw dozens of very optimistic E-o "Master of Ceremony" uloj which seem to keep the European E-o komuno/community alive. Of course there are a lot hardworking "behind the scence" without "MCs" would never be capable to act. E-o MC's seen to be often called in a kind of joke "ĉeforganizanto" even if they are not one of this. That's lot of fun if something goes wrong technically Espoj from the audit call aloud "ŝerco!" kaj this ĉeforganizanto start making some jokes to keep the entertainment feeling alive. That's quite nice and an completly other world like that "E-o movement" thing what probably aims to be similar like an regime doctrine to members of some movement. I assume this movement people originaly did want something similar like an doctrined movement in the style of the Internacio Brigadoj which seems to be outdated in my opinion. It will at least not attract very much people outside that movement in today days.

witeowl:
I also shy away from the flag-waving movement, similar to how I love hiking with the Sierra Club, but could care less about its activism and politics.

That's also the same relaxed view of world I feel close, too. I grow up in a kind of doctrine peer pressure which tried to suppress any individualism or self-centered behaviour outside your home/flat. That peer pressure doctrine was very well wrapped to children audits but didn't fortunatelly work for the DDR youth very well. Just search Youtube for "DDR Kinderlieder" if someones wants to get a feeling like it did sounds. Maybe that gives an idea why I don't understand or feel confused by self-centered beliefs and often also feel offended by people who have and live that self-centered beliefs against other people. (de: Mit irgendeinem Sachverhalt nicht's anfangen können). But because of I live in area (=Munich) where some unknown number/minority of self-centered are around I need to avoid marking that self-centered beliefs some negative marker like "arrogant" or something like that. I live here since 3 years where in my opinion (apart of Frankfurt/Main) live a lot of self-centered people (in a negative and positive sense). So I have to handle that onsite. I can not fight the whole day to keep politeness to other people alive. And yes, it let me feel relaxed at home if I meet East-Germans or people from the North-West or other (non-) Europeans which take care of their behaviour to other people around means the do not act selfish.

witeowl:In case the dead horse has not been sufficiently beaten, my mother, by way of my father, came with what they feel is the closest German translation for self-centered: "egozentrisch".

Thanks witeowl. But then I completly don't understand that "egozentrisch" concept. If I would take an negative view on it than for me it sounds like "egocentric" is some kind of psychological sickness. But according to the NLP view that there's everytime an positive intention behind I try to find out how parents did act to that kids which grow up to get such egocentric people. I accept that they allowed to do so because we live in a kind of democratic society but I will fight instantly against that behaviour if that person behave conceit against me. Probably that could enforce some overreacting but I will not make way to some arrogant and selfcented majesty something I named before Kings-Individualists.

wikipedia

In psychology, egocentrism is defined as 1.) the incomplete differentiation of the self and the world, including other people and 2.) the tendency to perceive, understand and interpret the world in terms of the self.

erinja:
Certainly no-one is saying that a "biciklisto" is a militant trying to force the whole world to use bicycles instead of other vehicles! That would be absurd; a biciklisto is simply a person who enjoys riding a bicycle, the same way that a ŝakludisto is a person who plays chess as a serious hobby, and an Esperantisto is a person who spends a lot of time with Esperanto.

I got what you mean. And for sure I accept that "-ist" fine-tunes in E-o. But keep in mind that Europe is much more crowded than North-America which means that there any people around in Europe who are "biciklisto" in that kind of that they could feel motivated to force comuting people from outside of town to use public transport (collecting taxi- & socialising container - styled; de: "in der Art Sammel-Taxi, Sozialcontainer") or short-ways bicycles instead of other vehicles downtown/innercity . Because they don't accept to live in the comuting peoples exhausts smog. And that's also strategy of many European city councils. Making car parking space rare artifically to enforce people using well maintained public transport facilities and of course bicylcles, too. It's said that if in i.e. the Netherlands some car driver making an accident with an cyclists the cyclist is right all time - ehm not stricly: "by definition" (I don't know how to express that fine tunes in English. It's like ("de: Gewohnheitsrecht"). That doesn't mean that Netherlands are completly against cars. For sure not. But they have very crowded space so there simply isn't any room for much individual car traffic in town.

erinja:
A note on "self-centered", for qwertz - you mentioned that you wanted to say "self-centered" in a neutral sense, as the opposite of "open mindedness".

erinja:
Therefore if you say that a person is "the opposite of open-minded", that means that you think that they are closed-minded, and in English, this is an insult. I believe you when you say that you didn't mean to offend, but I thought it was important to explain this to you, so that you don't cause offense in the future (unintentionally).

Ahh, neee. It's probably regarding "So, hhm, in result "self-centered" probably means the same like the common German word "engstirnig" what could be "funnel-thinking" or better the opposite of "open mindness" ".

That was some "aloud-thinking". I was thinking that I made an mistake "to use "self-centered" because it "self-centered" seems to be non-proper to mark individualists behaviour "with an neutral term" which is not offending this regarding person. Pfff. That was some difficult to express in English.

Btw. it seems to be that self-centered people don't make any mistake and can laugh about themselves. That's why I started that Ĉu vi estas kapablige ŝerci pri vin en publiko? topic. Maybe you English speaking community understand what the intention could be behind that topic thread. Maybe I tried to convey it non-proper into E-o.

qwertz:

qwertz:
Hhm, I took that "self-centered" from that thread. Mustelvulpo mentioned it there. It was not my intention to blame you with categorizing "self-centered". I thought "self-centered" has some neutral sense. I could use that "self-centered" word in German, too = (de: selbst-zentriert). Until now I never used it in German language. But I heard it first from Mustelvulpo who has an "US" country (English native) lernu.net avatar marker. So, hhm, in result "self-centered" probably means the same like the common German word "engstirnig" what could be "funnel-thinking" or better the opposite of "open mindness".

I repeat: I did not want blame you with "self-centered". I thought that it is a neutral word in English.

erinja:
For the record I don't think there is a polite way and neutral to say in English that someone is "self-centered". It comes out sounding insulting in every variation.

Thanks to clarify that English language fine-tunes.

Evildela:I would have learnt Volapuk if I knew it had more speakers, and personally I really like the look of it to - but It doesn’t so that is why I choose Esperanto instead - statistics people, very important in this day and age, why do you think companies pay obscene amounts to generate them. So even if you don’t support the pention, what harm can come from signing it? Obviously so far there are about 670 Esperantist who are interested in the numbers of speakers – because they signed it.

I don't remember who made that statement but just to explain my healthy distrust (de: "Gesundes Misstrauen") regarding statistics. "Solely trust that statistics you falsified/faked yourself" (de: Vertraue nur der Statistik die du selbst gefälscht hast.)

That's my *grrr* "self-centered" view of point. But we can discuss about. I'm not self-centered ingrained with my opinion. I'm cabable to learn means change my opinion.

Evildela:
So are you really going to not supply your 1 number just out of some silly ideal of wanting to stay invisible?

Yes. (sarkastic)I'm a very silly idealistic person(/sarkastic).