შინაარსის ნახვა

Number of Esperanto Speakers

Evildela-ისა და 25 ნოემბერი, 2010-ის მიერ

შეტყობინებები: 96

ენა: English

qwertz (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 28 ნოემბერი, 2010 11:41:30

Evildela:
I would also love to be able to direct possible new members to this website and be able to show them all the signatures from all over the world, and say “See there are thousands from China, Brazil ect, ect ….”
I understand that demand. You could use special pasporto servo network or search through interests field of other hosting networks i.e. like Couchsurfing, Servas, BeWelcome, Hospitality Club. Does there still excists other ones?

qwertz (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 28 ნოემბერი, 2010 11:41:47

Evildela:
I’ve become a regular at Esperanto meetings in Sydney and sometimes feel a little out of place because I am usually the only person under the age of 30-40 in the room. Esperanto is aging here, and unless we change our recruitment methods and try something new we will always remain a small fringe group that sometimes appears in the odd spot columns of the local newspaper.
That's what filmoj.net, eobo karaokeo, komiksoj.wordpress.com and pondus komiksoj projects targets to. Granting Esperanto an entertainment wrapping which could attract people who still know that entertainment fields outside the Esperanto community.

I would like motivate you to bring some (entertainment) hobby into that Sydney meetings. For an excample just to tell the story how I entered into local E-o komuno:

I brought (or better took time to find out) MP3 karaoke expertise into my onsite E-o youth meetings. It was sucessfully like seen at JES programo. And yes I'm a little bit proud on bringing it with support of other people an strong culture field into JES party week happening. Maybe that eobo karaokeo also did motivate Flo (Vinilkosmo) to take care that every new album gets instrumental versions which are base for real karaokeo. Karaoke also comes with added-value to voiced songs means someone can sell one song twice. One with voice and one for the crowd who wants to know how it feels like singing that song that's in detail like going to an budget version of an concert. Just keep in mind how much i.e. an U2 concert costs and what someone has to pay to sing a U2 song at an karaoke bar. It also enables that "budget-concert-participating" if there is an way-distance between the musik group and the fan group.

edit: I shortly found an example how matured E-o people and youth could celebrate together. Jomo also seems to be an E-o MC. Take a hear at 06:40 min which is a rock cover version of Bob Marley "No women, no cry".

qwertz (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 28 ნოემბერი, 2010 11:55:33

ceigered:
For fun: Hotel Volapük
Genießen Sie Ihren Aufenthalt im mediterranen Stil der Zimmer und des Restaurants mit Wintergarten und Terrasse.
Volapük war die erste Kunstsprache, die wirklich gesprochen wurde. Sie ist Vorläufer von Esperanto und wurde von Prälat Johann-Martin Schleyer (1831-1912) erfunden. Er war Pfarrer bei uns in Litzelstetten am Bodensee.
*grrr* It's just 227 k's from Munich. It's a shame that I didn't visit that location where uncle LLZ did meet Johann Martin Schleyer. I read somewhere that Schleyer wasn't capable to speak it's own invented conlang which did felt LLZ very disappointed.

erinja (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 28 ნოემბერი, 2010 16:36:37

qwertz, I think that in your refusal to accept a neutral meaning of -IST-, you are suffering from influence from your native language. People ALL over Europe and the whole world happily use IST and it has nothing to do with any sort of activism. I understand that you grew up in a culture that gave you a bad impression of anything ending in -ist. But you shouldn't let that color your understanding of Esperanto's IST suffix.

The word "biciklisto" has NO connotation whatsoever of militancy or trying to "convert" anyone. A biciklisto is simply someone who enjoys riding a bicycle, like an Esperantisto enjoys speaking Esperanto. In English we use the word "bicyclist" to talk about people who enjoy bicycling as a hobby. It has nothing at all to do with belonging to any kind of club, being a member of "bicycling movement", joining a bicycling promotion society, or anything like that.

You should use Esperanto according to the actual meanings of the words, not according to the false meanings that you have given the words, based on your native language. Esperanto literature was mostly written by Europeans, and I can assure you that they all use -ist- according to Zamenhof's meaning (a professional occupation or a serious hobby).

You are confusing the root meaning of -ist- with the alternate meaning of -ism--an-

It's true that -ist- is used as a sort of short hand; we say "komunisto" instead of "komunismano". But a "biciklisto" is not an abridged version of "biciklismano", and you seem to suppose that it is. (it isn't).

If you really want to preserve the language and use it in a precise way, you should use -ist- and -ism--an- according to their original base meanings. You should not say "komunisto" but "komunismano"; not "faŝisto" but "faŝismano". Not "budhisto" but "budhismano". This will preserve the root meaning of -ist- (hobby or occupation).

qwertz (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 28 ნოემბერი, 2010 19:05:05

Thanks erinja but I still told that I accept the E-o meaning of -ist.
qwertz:
I got what you mean. And for sure I accept that "-ist" fine-tunes in E-o.
What I told regarding some bicylist movement folks points to the issue that there excist bicyling/pushbike folks who make lobby work against innercity car traffic (clean air). I repeat: For sure I accept that "-ist" has no "-ism" meaning in E-o. Yes, I confused it with German words i.e. "Buddist, Kommunist" which all refer to relegion or dogmen. I was not aware of that different meaning of -ist in E-o.

robertopigro (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 28 ნოემბერი, 2010 20:37:01

I'm the founder of the petition "Esperanto-parolantoj en la mondo" and I'd like to answer to some people who criticized my project. First of all, sorry for my not perfect English.
I accept all kinds of comments, but I cannot understand some of them. This petition, this "nombrado" doesn't aim to count world cyclers by waiting for them on a village crossroad. That's why I am inviting every Esperantist to urge all of his contacts to join the petition. Cyclers are all around the world, but Esperantists and I are inviting them to come to the same meeting point, to the same square. It's a kind of virtual parade, of "Esperanto pride". Internet permits to create an electronical square, where you easily arrive in seconds from all over the world. Is this proposal silly? Come on, most Esperantists use the Internet, maybe not daily, maybe with the help of acquaintances, maybe once a year, but most (or all) have access to it. I can't imagine Esperanto as the foreign language of shepherds lost on distant mountains or of African children with flies on their nose... We are almost all active on the Web: and we can easily inform the few who still aren't. Why not try such an experiment? You don't need a quarter to sign the petition, only one minute: this way, even people from countries without an official Esperanto association -like me, living in Cyprus- can say "present". It doesn't cost anything at all, one can choose to remain anonymous if he doesn't trust the initiative. If everyone informed all of his friends and acquaintances, we would collect thousands of signatures in few days. Scepticism doesn't help.

robertopigro (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 28 ნოემბერი, 2010 20:37:54

(continuation)
I personally know old Greek Esperantists who don't use the Internet: I called them, I sent them a letter or a postcard, and they answered that they'll certainly find a way to join the petition as soon as possible, maybe on X-mas, maybe on March, maybe in the summer, thanks to the pc of the local group, thanks to the collaboration of grandchildren or neighbours...
Not all must join us today or tomorrow. One has got plenty of time. It may look an utopia, but Zamenhof himself teaches that there's no utopia, if a language projected by a single Polish doctor in 1887 has become so popular in so many countries of the world... Everything is possible, when you think positively. I don't collect and I don't send addresses (even if I wanted to do it, the system wouldn't give me access to them!), I'm a simple Esperantist like you, who had few days ago this idea and thought that it's not bad to try. If you don't want to join and you prefer to cycle to another direction, make your karaoke and feel free not to sign, but respect the enthusiasm of hundreds of "dreamers" (already more than 700!). In the worst case, even if we won't get the signature of poor shepherds and fishermen, we will get the number of Esperantists who are active on the net, which is an interesting piece of information. For further information and analyse, please contact me, Roberto (esperob79@gmail.com)

robertopigro (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 28 ნოემბერი, 2010 21:10:56

I have been told that it's possible to sign the petition only once from each IP. So, even if you created a new email address just in order to sign the petition and make it grow by... one unit (one should be really sick of Esperanto to do it and I hope nobody is), you wouldn't be able to sign it, unless you go to an Internet Cafe to do it... Believe me, you misunderstood the sense of the whole initiative...
I could have easily signed the petition with the names of my wife, son, father, mother, sister, aunt, uncle, even my dead grandmother (who would get to know she died?), but I signed only once (I'm the first one in the list), because they don't speak Esperanto and I demand a "transparent" result, without any fear.
I think the main reason because of which some are against the petition is that they're afraid that Esperanto-parolantoj are not 2 millions (as some people like to make us believe) but just "four cats" (as we say in Italian). I think that even few thousands "guaranteed" cats would be a good result, because if you know that the language is spoken by 10,000 of people all over the world, it means it is far more useful than... Cypriot dialect, spoken by 1 million people but only in a small island like Cyprus... so completely useless for international communication.
Pasporta servo? I don't know much about it and I would personally never host an unknown person in my house: I would prefer to pay a room for him/her in a hotel. Joining that service doesn't mean at all that you speak Esperanto language: you could be theorically even a maniac with no interest in Esperanto.
This petition will get more inscriptions because it doesn't ask you to pay money to join any Esperantist federation, it doesn't force you to host anyone, it doesn't ask you to adopt any ideology (ecologists, Muslims, Catholics, Buddhists, atheists, gay, lesbians and so on)...
It's just a virtual square, where everybody is welcome to boast his own Esperanto flag and declare: "In 2010 I was one of the people in the world who could speak Esperanto". It requires not more than one minute, it's free and after this statistic nothing at all will change in your life.
Who doesn't sign is just afraid of being "filed/indexed". Someone will say one day: "So you were one of the idiots who joined that silly petition?". If this is your fear (it is, it is) you are given the opportunity to remain anonymous...
Good night to all European cyclists.

KIAaze (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 29 ნოემბერი, 2010 05:03:42

robertopigro:I have been told that it's possible to sign the petition only once from each IP. So, even if you created a new email address just in order to sign the petition and make it grow by... one unit (one should be really sick of Esperanto to do it and I hope nobody is), you wouldn't be able to sign it, unless you go to an Internet Cafe to do it... Believe me, you misunderstood the sense of the whole initiative...
I could have easily signed the petition with the names of my wife, son, father, mother, sister, aunt, uncle, even my dead grandmother (who would get to know she died?), but I signed only once (I'm the first one in the list), because they don't speak Esperanto and I demand a "transparent" result, without any fear.
Kaj se mia edzina, mia filo, mia patro, mia patrino, mia fratino, mia onklino, mia onklo kaj mia avino parolas Esperanton, sed ni havas nur unu konekto al la interreto (do unu IP)?
Kion ni farus?

Mi ŝatas la peticion, sed mi pensas ke tio povus esti problemon en iuj lokoj.

@qwertz: La subskribo da la peticio ne malebligas vin fari aliajn aferojn.
===============
And if my wife, my son, my father, my mother, my aunt, my uncle and my grand mother speak Esperanto, but we have only one connection to the internet (therefore 1 IP)?
What should we do?

I like the petition, but I think that this might be a problem in some places.

@qwertz: Subscripting to the petition doesn’t prevent you from doing other things.

Evildela (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 29 ნოემბერი, 2010 05:33:26

KIAaze:And if my wife, my son, my father, my mother, my aunt, my uncle and my grand mother speak Esperanto, but we have only one connection to the internet (therefore 1 IP)?
What should we do?

I like the petition, but I think that it would also be a problem in some other places.

@qwertz: Subscripting to the petition doesn’t prevent you from doing other things
Memoru tiun ĉi forumon estas por la angla lingvo, tial se vi skribis per Esperanto vi ankaŭ devas provizi al ni la anglan tradukon de via teksto.

Remember that this forum is for the English language, so if you write something in Esperanto then you must provide an English translation of your text.

Now regarding your question ... you can either do nothing or make accounts at a local net cafe - or at friends houses whom arn't Esperantists, but that is alot of effort =P

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