Sporočila: 14
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Mathieux (Prikaži profil) 25. december 2010 01:49:51
Hey everyone,
I've been studying esperanto for a little over two weeks now, and I find myself always translating every word in my head. For example, if I see "Sxi estas tre belegan." my thought process is something like "okay.. sxi, that's she.. estas is..is... tre is very, belegan.. uhm.. oh! that's bela with the -eg- so beautiful... so.. she is beautiful."
Well, with simple sentences I don't put as much thought into it.. like.. "Mi estas knabo" but I still find myself reading "mi" and thinking "I" then "estas=am knabo=boy"
Is this natural at first? The reason I ask is because I am also taking french at school (it's required to take a foreign language) and when I see for example "A quelle heure est-til?" I don't translate each word I just know that means "what time is it?"
In fact, with some things in french I don't even really think about it, A quelle heure est-til I just know that it's asking what time it is. However, I don't consider anything in esperanto as "fluent" yet.
Thanks!
Mathieux
I've been studying esperanto for a little over two weeks now, and I find myself always translating every word in my head. For example, if I see "Sxi estas tre belegan." my thought process is something like "okay.. sxi, that's she.. estas is..is... tre is very, belegan.. uhm.. oh! that's bela with the -eg- so beautiful... so.. she is beautiful."
Well, with simple sentences I don't put as much thought into it.. like.. "Mi estas knabo" but I still find myself reading "mi" and thinking "I" then "estas=am knabo=boy"
Is this natural at first? The reason I ask is because I am also taking french at school (it's required to take a foreign language) and when I see for example "A quelle heure est-til?" I don't translate each word I just know that means "what time is it?"
In fact, with some things in french I don't even really think about it, A quelle heure est-til I just know that it's asking what time it is. However, I don't consider anything in esperanto as "fluent" yet.
Thanks!
Mathieux
Mustelvulpo (Prikaži profil) 25. december 2010 03:12:11
I think you've described the biggest hurdle that has to be jumped on the way to fluency in a language- learning to think in the language and not having to translate from English as you read, write or speak. For most of us, it's something that can never be totally overcome without putting yourself in a position where you are forced to use the language. I can read fairly fluently in French or Spanish, I can write in those languages with a little help from a dictionary, but I have a hard time discussing anything more complicated than the weather. If I watch a movie in French or Spanish, there are usually some actors who enunciate so clearly that I understand every word and others whose speech is incomprehensible to me. There are big differences in recognizing words when you see them, understanding them as you hear them, and being able to recall them as you speak. I believe that immersion is eventually required if you want to become truly fluent.
Remember- in Esperanto never use the accusative following est(-is, -as, -os). the sentence should be "Ŝi estas tre belega." (not "belegan") The -n form indicates a direct object, e.g. "Mi vidas tre belegan junulinon." And if you're piling up the superlatives, using both "tre" AND the "-eg" suffix she must be one very beautiful young lady!
Remember- in Esperanto never use the accusative following est(-is, -as, -os). the sentence should be "Ŝi estas tre belega." (not "belegan") The -n form indicates a direct object, e.g. "Mi vidas tre belegan junulinon." And if you're piling up the superlatives, using both "tre" AND the "-eg" suffix she must be one very beautiful young lady!
Mathieux (Prikaži profil) 25. december 2010 03:33:17
thanks for the lesson 
that has always confused me.
I know what you me, too, when I'm reading I can remember a lot more than when I'm writing or speaking (the very little that I can)
Also, since esperanto, sadly, isn't spoken by many, is it possible to truly become immersed in the language? The only situation I can think of is if an entire family spoke esperanto and one day decided to only speak that instead of their native language(s).
I'm in the USA, and as far as I know there aren't many conferences around. I've done some searching for them, and the few that there are (that I could find, anyway) are usually in northern American or Canada.. never where I'm from (kentucky)
I think that would be one of the biggest barriers to overcome when on the journey to become...at least a very advanced speaker in Esperanto, finding people to speak with. I've tried to convince my friends and family to learn with me, but they won't. Esperanto or any language, really, French or German or what have you. I do like the community that Esperanto has behind it, however.
Sorry.. here I am rambling off subject
that has always confused me.I know what you me, too, when I'm reading I can remember a lot more than when I'm writing or speaking (the very little that I can)
Also, since esperanto, sadly, isn't spoken by many, is it possible to truly become immersed in the language? The only situation I can think of is if an entire family spoke esperanto and one day decided to only speak that instead of their native language(s).
I'm in the USA, and as far as I know there aren't many conferences around. I've done some searching for them, and the few that there are (that I could find, anyway) are usually in northern American or Canada.. never where I'm from (kentucky)
I think that would be one of the biggest barriers to overcome when on the journey to become...at least a very advanced speaker in Esperanto, finding people to speak with. I've tried to convince my friends and family to learn with me, but they won't. Esperanto or any language, really, French or German or what have you. I do like the community that Esperanto has behind it, however.
Sorry.. here I am rambling off subject
Mustelvulpo (Prikaži profil) 25. december 2010 05:03:40
For sure, it is a bit harder to immerse yourself in Esperanto since it isn't an official language. Probably the best you can do is to join a group where it is used in discussion and read and listen to material in the language as much as possible. There is some activity in your part of the country. For example, here is information on a seminar on Esperanto to take place at the University of Louisville in February 2011:
http://www.esperanto-usa.org/and here is one for speakers in your region of the country:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LexKyEsperanto/?ta... Your bio says that you are 17 years old, which means you're probably working through the last part of high school, so I don't know how much time or how many financial resources you have at this point. I hope you will keep working on Esperanto. I wish that I had gotten more into it at your age. (If only the internet had come along sooner! Text books and cassette tapes can't compare to Lernu!)
http://www.esperanto-usa.org/and here is one for speakers in your region of the country:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LexKyEsperanto/?ta... Your bio says that you are 17 years old, which means you're probably working through the last part of high school, so I don't know how much time or how many financial resources you have at this point. I hope you will keep working on Esperanto. I wish that I had gotten more into it at your age. (If only the internet had come along sooner! Text books and cassette tapes can't compare to Lernu!)
acdibble (Prikaži profil) 25. december 2010 05:10:04
The more you use the language the less you have to think when you do. Like you said, you can put together simple sentences easily and the more and more you read and write in Esperanto the quicker you will be able to use it even if you don't speak it daily or at all. Once you use "mi" enough times, you won't have to think about it kind of like how you don't have to think to use "I". You've been speaking English for 17 years and you've only been using Esperanto for a couple days or weeks I'm assuming. It just needs a little time but you'll get the hang of it.
philodice (Prikaži profil) 25. december 2010 05:39:19
Try using it every day, like in Twitter. I find that after really throwing myself into it I've been making fast progress. There is always somebody online willing to speak EO and I've found some closet Esperanto lovers in my friends that never mentioned it before.
erinja (Prikaži profil) 25. december 2010 13:20:22
I started with Esperanto when I was around 14, so I know how it feels to be 'stuck' in your region with no Esperanto speakers, no events, no resources to travel, etc. But it gets better! When I got to college I had a lot more chances to do Esperanto stuff. I had a lot of penpals with Esperanto, both on the internet and offline. That helps. We have Skype now, which was years away from existing when I was learning. Skype is a great way to practice. It is hard to become fluent on your own. But trust me when I say that you can become very skilled, even in your relative isolation from the Esperanto community. And the difference between "skilled" and "fluent" may be bridged by attending only a couple of week-long Esperanto events, where you're speaking nothing but Esperanto.
Europe is the best place to go for these week-long events. We don't have much like that in the US. Americans don't get very much vacation time, so US Esperanto events tend to be run over a long weekend rather than a whole week. Start saving your money now and you can go when you hit college. The plane ticket will be your biggest expense; once you get there, a large Esperanto youth event in Europe will usually be very affordable. If you can save enough for the plane ticket, you don't have much further to go to afford the youth event. Esperanto events are very price-sensitive, and there are always reduced rates available for students, retirees, the unemployed, and people who come from countries with low salaries. Usually if you can't even afford those rates, the organizers might be willing to cut you a deal - a reduced rate in exchange for contributing to the conference program, perhaps. Unfortunately an airline will not be willing to cut a deal or offer you a reduced student rate, which is why the plane ticket is your biggest hurdle.
I know exactly what you're going through because I've been through it. If you can use this time wisely, you will already be skilled in Esperanto by the time you start attending events, and you'll get more out of it. And do try to attend that event that was mentioned, in February!
Europe is the best place to go for these week-long events. We don't have much like that in the US. Americans don't get very much vacation time, so US Esperanto events tend to be run over a long weekend rather than a whole week. Start saving your money now and you can go when you hit college. The plane ticket will be your biggest expense; once you get there, a large Esperanto youth event in Europe will usually be very affordable. If you can save enough for the plane ticket, you don't have much further to go to afford the youth event. Esperanto events are very price-sensitive, and there are always reduced rates available for students, retirees, the unemployed, and people who come from countries with low salaries. Usually if you can't even afford those rates, the organizers might be willing to cut you a deal - a reduced rate in exchange for contributing to the conference program, perhaps. Unfortunately an airline will not be willing to cut a deal or offer you a reduced student rate, which is why the plane ticket is your biggest hurdle.
I know exactly what you're going through because I've been through it. If you can use this time wisely, you will already be skilled in Esperanto by the time you start attending events, and you'll get more out of it. And do try to attend that event that was mentioned, in February!
saasmath (Prikaži profil) 25. december 2010 20:33:17
Consider going to NASK this year which is 8 days in beautiful San Diego by the beach over the week of the 4th of July. The cost including room, board, and perhaps even airfare is less than $1000 for the week if you can afford it. For students, there is sometimes even some scholarship money to help out.
Google NASK for more information. It is probably the best immersion experience in Esperanto for those in the US without traveling overseas.
Ĝis!
Google NASK for more information. It is probably the best immersion experience in Esperanto for those in the US without traveling overseas.
Ĝis!
Mathieux:thanks for the lesson
I know what you me, too, when I'm reading I can remember a lot more than when I'm writing or speaking (the very little that I can)
Also, since esperanto, sadly, isn't spoken by many, is it possible to truly become immersed in the language? The only situation I can think of is if an entire family spoke esperanto and one day decided to only speak that instead of their native language(s).
I'm in the USA, and as far as I know there aren't many conferences around. I've done some searching for them, and the few that there are (that I could find, anyway) are usually in northern American or Canada.. never where I'm from (kentucky)
I think that would be one of the biggest barriers to overcome when on the journey to become...at least a very advanced speaker in Esperanto, finding people to speak with. I've tried to convince my friends and family to learn with me, but they won't. Esperanto or any language, really, French or German or what have you. I do like the community that Esperanto has behind it, however.
Sorry.. here I am rambling off subject
sudanglo
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sudanglo (Prikaži profil) 28. december 2010 10:11:58
Mathieux, as others have said, a lot of what you experience now is just down to only being at the beginning stages of acquiring the language.
However, as you progress, you will find that learning Esperanto not quite the same as learning national languages.
When learning a language like French or German you often copy what native speakers say and don't question it.
However whilst you will find yourself to some extent doing the same with Esperanto (but copying good speakers rather than native speakers), nevertheless an analytic approach remains relevant.
So if you find a clearer or more logical way of expressing your thought, it may be better Esperanto.
A Frenchman on the other hand would not accept any attempt by you to 'improve' the language'. If that's the way the French say it then that's the way you have to say it also.
Part of the appeal of learning Esperanto at the higher level is the creative aspect of expression.
However, as you progress, you will find that learning Esperanto not quite the same as learning national languages.
When learning a language like French or German you often copy what native speakers say and don't question it.
However whilst you will find yourself to some extent doing the same with Esperanto (but copying good speakers rather than native speakers), nevertheless an analytic approach remains relevant.
So if you find a clearer or more logical way of expressing your thought, it may be better Esperanto.
A Frenchman on the other hand would not accept any attempt by you to 'improve' the language'. If that's the way the French say it then that's the way you have to say it also.
Part of the appeal of learning Esperanto at the higher level is the creative aspect of expression.
Miland (Prikaži profil) 28. december 2010 16:15:14
To prepare your mind to learn to think in Esperanto, it is a good idea to listen to and study the texts in the courses here (like Ana Pana) until you can read or listen to a passage without thinking of the English, so that you are (at least passively) thinking in Esperanto.
Later I recommend a basic Esperanto-Esperanto dictionary like Wouter Pilger's Baza Esperanta Radikaro. The short glossaries at the end of articles in the magazine Juna Amiko, once you are ready for them, will serve a similar purpose.
Later I recommend a basic Esperanto-Esperanto dictionary like Wouter Pilger's Baza Esperanta Radikaro. The short glossaries at the end of articles in the magazine Juna Amiko, once you are ready for them, will serve a similar purpose.