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Silvestro or Novjara Turniĝo?

של Kinlaso, 30 בדצמבר 2010

הודעות: 13

שפה: English

Kinlaso (הצגת פרופיל) 30 בדצמבר 2010, 23:36:12

Hi all,

When I first started learning Esperanto, I saw Novjara Turniĝo used for New Year's Eve. Now I see Antaŭnokta Novjaro and Silvestro. Silvestro is what Vikipedio offers: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/eo/wiki/Sil...

I was curious where it came from and looked it up. Austria, Brazil, Croatia, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Hungary, Israel, Italy, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia, and Ukraine use variants of it for NYE.
It is named after Pope Sylvester I (the day of his burial: 31 December 335).

I was just curious what most Esperantists prefer for NYE.
Novjara Turniĝo or Silvestro or another?

erinja (הצגת פרופיל) 31 בדצמבר 2010, 00:43:13

I see "Silvestro" as a very European thing. I am pretty sure that most Esperantists outside of Europe have never heard of "Silvestro", unless they've spent substantial time there.

The first time I heard of an Esperanto new year's event with a "silvestra bankedo", I had no clue what they were talking about. It was an event in Europe, of course.

I usually say "Novjariĝo" in Esperanto. I think it's more culturally neutral.

darkweasel (הצגת פרופיל) 31 בדצמבר 2010, 09:01:27

erinja:
I usually say "Novjariĝo" in Esperanto. I think it's more culturally neutral.
In Austria, and probably Germany, Silvester is December 31, while Neujahr (lit. new-year) is January 1. So using novjariĝo for December 31 may confuse German speakers.

Miland (הצגת פרופיל) 31 בדצמבר 2010, 11:26:00

Wells has Silvestra Vespero. But I'm not sure I would think of this word readily; antaŭnovjara vespero might come to mind more easily.

sudanglo (הצגת פרופיל) 31 בדצמבר 2010, 12:02:35

Silvestro might seem European to you, Erinja, but Esperanto is after all a European language - despite the desperate efforts of Esperantists to argue otherwise.

Kristnasko is hardly culturally neutral, but I expect you happily wish Feliĉan Kristnaskon to others.

erinja (הצגת פרופיל) 31 בדצמבר 2010, 12:56:35

sudanglo:Silvestro might seem European to you, Erinja, but Esperanto is after all a European language - despite the desperate efforts of Esperantists to argue otherwise.

Kristnasko is hardly culturally neutral, but I expect you happily wish Feliĉan Kristnaskon to others.
Kristnasko is not culturally neutral at all. It is specific to Christians. Therefore I wish a Feliĉan Kristnaskon to Christians only. I am not a Christian myself, so I hardly go around wishing everyone a happy Christmas left and right, since it is a holiday that I don't even believe in.

I prefer to wish people "Happy holidays", in cases when I don't know whether the person observes Christmas or not.

ceigered (הצגת פרופיל) 31 בדצמבר 2010, 14:58:59

I don't think it's bad for Europeans to wish eachother nice Silvestros, but as we can see with Erinja's example of herself, not everyone celebrates the same holidays, especially if they're of different religion, or in this case, region/culture.

Thus I don't see how silvestro would be useful for anyone spare a European, and even then not all Europeans would surely know what it is. And it seems to be a church-holiday too... Anyway, "do as the romans do when in rome", and since we're talking only a part of Europe, that sort of solves the dilemma then lango.gif

I honestly had no idea it existed anyway in English.

RiotNrrd (הצגת פרופיל) 1 בינואר 2011, 00:37:15

I'm 49 years old, and I swear I had never even heard the term "Silvester" until I came to this forum (other than "Sylvester"', as a name - mainly of the cartoon cat variety). My mother is european (Netherlands) and I never heard her mention it once. I think you'd have to look long and hard in the US before you found anyone at all who knew what the heck it refers to.

Not that the US is typically a stronghold of internationalism.

Chainy (הצגת פרופיל) 2 בינואר 2011, 20:50:36

Why not call it 'Novjara Festo'? This is probably quite clear for everyone.

I also don't like the use of 'Silvestro', even if it is familiar to many other European languages. The big problem is that outside these languages, the name sounds pretty bizarre. I myself had never heard of it until I turned up in Germany.

wuerfel (הצגת פרופיל) 3 בינואר 2011, 09:50:24

Chainy:Why not call it 'Novjara Festo'? This is probably quite clear for everyone.
The problem is that the “Novjara Festo” is the 1st of January, a public holiday in many countries. The Day of Pope Saint Silvester, on the other hand, is the 31st of December.

The “novjariĝo” (or “turniĝo”) is what happens at midnight, when the old year ends, and the new begins.

Chainy:
I also don't like the use of 'Silvestro', even if it is familiar to many other European languages. The big problem is that outside these languages, the name sounds pretty bizarre. I myself had never heard of it until I turned up in Germany. (I'm from England, by the way.)
Also the use of “vespero” is disturbing, as New Year’s Eve or Christmas Eve mean the whole day before the actual holiday, and not only the evening—of course named like that because Jewish and Christian holidays begin traditionally with the sunset the evening before. I consider “jarfina tago” and “jarfina festo” much better, but they don’t tell which calendar you refer to. rideto.gif

Feliĉan novan jaron al vi ĉiuj!

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