訊息: 37
語言: English
Miland (顯示個人資料) 2011年1月25日下午3:00:05
Kiam N staras antaŭ gingiva aŭ vela sono, oni emas ŝanĝi N en gingivan sonon (malgranda diferenco), aŭ velan sonon (granda diferenco), por faciligi la elparolon: tranĉi, manĝi, longa, banko k.a. Tio estas senproblema, ĉar ne ekzistas gingiva aŭ vela nazaj sonoj, kun kiuj N povus konfuziĝi.
I translate freely:
"When N stands before a sound that uses the gum or soft palate, it may well be changed into a sound formed by using the gum (which makes only a small difference) or the soft palate (which makes a greater difference), in order to make pronunciation easier, e.g. in tranĉi, manĝi, longa, banko and others. That is not a problem, since there are no sounds formed using the gum or soft palate, with which N could be confused."
In short, as many have said, it doesn't matter how you pronounce n, so long as you don't drop the g altogether.
ceigered (顯示個人資料) 2011年1月25日下午3:07:53
Velarised/Uvularised N's (well, technically speaking that "ng" sound) seem to appear in every romance language before a hard g, definitely in every Germanic language, in most Chinese dialects, in Japanese, Indo-Malay, I'd expect some of the Slavic languages, quite a few African languages, many native languages (e.g. Kaurna ending -ngga, e.g. Tarndanyangga (at Tarndanya, "Adelaide" now)).
Well, that's my guess anyway. The wikipedia article on the matter suggests that while /ŋ/ is rare as a phoneme in some regions, it is allophonic of N before G/K.
So as far as international allophones go I reckon this one's as close to preferred as we can possibly get.
On a separate note, who votes that the Esperanto latin-inspired word "bovo" should be replaced with the Swahilian "ng'ombe"?
(mi nur ŝercas!) 
erinja (顯示個人資料) 2011年1月25日下午5:06:44
If Esperanto were a REAL world language, obviously it should also incorporate every alphabet from the world.
Obviously the new Esperanto should look something like this:
我 אוהב мояを ขาวを ძროხაを
pinto (顯示個人資料) 2011年1月25日下午6:16:39
pinto (顯示個人資料) 2011年1月25日下午6:26:34
Angvilo--Anguilla
estingkamiono--fire truck
estingkamiono seems really hard to me.
es-tin-g-ka-mi-o-no turns into either es-tin-guh-kah or es-tin-ka when I try to say it.
henma (顯示個人資料) 2011年1月25日下午6:30:22
pinto:I think what's also really interesting is so far I haven't seen any words that have the exact same problem as "lingvo".
"Lingvo" seems weird because the g is followed by the v which why it's so tempting to drop the g altogether. It falls in the same category to me as words like "knabo" which combines consanants in a way not typical for english speakers.That's true... it's a difficult word for spanish speakers too. In general, gv/kn/kv are difficult combinations, but with practice, you can pronounce them correctly.
If you practice enough, you can even pronounce lingvscienco without pausing after each consonant
Amike,
Daniel.
erinja (顯示個人資料) 2011年1月25日下午6:36:19
One principle of Esperanto word-building is pronounceability. We retain or omit the -o of the first root in the compound, depending on which version is easier to pronounce. That's why I would probably opt for "estingokamiono" rather than "estingkamiono".
Most people would probably go for manĝaĵoŝranko (food cupboard - it's a valid word but I've never heard it used, I just made it up) rather than manĝaĵŝranko as well. Ĵŝr isn't a very easy combination for most people to pronounce!
On the other end, if we're talking about an organization for people who like to play the Japanese game Go ("goo" [go/o] in Esperanto), I think we would talk about a "goorganizo" (go/organizo) and not a "gooorganizo" (go/o/organizo), even though "gooorganizo" is theoretically a valid choice.
horsto (顯示個人資料) 2011年1月25日下午9:14:16
pinto: "Lingvo" seems weird because the g is followed by the v which why it's so tempting to drop the g altogether. It falls in the same category to me as words like "knabo" which combines consanants in a way not typical for english speakers.But you certainly have no problems to pronounce kv, f.e. kvalito = quality.
The kv is pronounced like the qu in english.
And if you can pronounce kv, then gv also is easy. You have to pronounce lingvo like lin-gvo.
erinja (顯示個人資料) 2011年1月25日下午9:59:58
Kv is not pronounced like the English qu. The Esperanto equivalent of the English qu would be "kŭ" (quality - 'kŭaliti')
Kv isn't common in English, but you will probably find it in the middle of some compound words. I live near a town called Rockville, for example. Of course no one has a problem pronouncing that.
Kv at the beginning of a word probably seems much more difficult to English speakers since we aren't used to it. The only 'English' words beginning with a kv sound that I can think of are loan words from Yiddish - kvetch and kvell, for example.
It would be the same thing with gv, we'd find it in the middle of a word but never in the beginning (I'm sure if I called a new town "Bagville" it would be no problem for people to pronounce it, but Gville would present significant challenges to lots of English-speaking people!)