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від pinto, 25 січня 2011 р.

Повідомлення: 37

Мова: English

pinto (Переглянути профіль) 25 січня 2011 р. 03:09:55

I had a question about the word "lingvo" (language) and its pronunciation. I don't know if you are supposed to pronunce it with the "-ng" sound like in the english "ring", or pronounce it with all of the consonants separately "lin-g-vo", the same way you would pronounce k-nabo. The reason I ask is that the "ng" sound is one that doesn't exist anywhere else in esperanto.
Any thoughts?

-pinto

RiotNrrd (Переглянути профіль) 25 січня 2011 р. 03:27:11

My understanding is that you are supposed to pronounce each letter seperately (so, lin-gvo), but that pronouncing the combination like the English ng is acceptable.

danielcg (Переглянути профіль) 25 січня 2011 р. 03:32:12

Esperanto is phonetic: one letter, one sound; one sound, one letter.

So, each letter in the word "lingvo" or in any other word, should be pronounced distinctively.

It's so simple that sometimes it seems difficult.

Regards,

Daniel

pinto:I had a question about the word "lingvo" (language) and its pronunciation. I don't know if you are supposed to pronunce it with the "-ng" sound like in the english "ring", or pronounce it with all of the consonants separately "lin-g-vo", the same way you would pronounce k-nabo. The reason I ask is that the "ng" sound is one that doesn't exist anywhere else in esperanto.
Any thoughts?

-pinto

darkweasel (Переглянути профіль) 25 січня 2011 р. 06:03:15

"One letter, one sound" does not mean that slight assimilation - when the new sound does not collide with anything that exists in Esperanto - is not allowed. In fact, a more precise description is "one letter, one phoneme". Pronouncing lingvo, longa, fingro etc. like in English "ring" is not at all wrong. Feel free to do so.

See: Konsonanta variado
N estas denta naza konsonanto. Ĝi kontrastas al la alia naza konsonanto M, kiu estas lipa. Kiam N staras antaŭ gingiva aŭ vela sono, oni emas ŝanĝi N en gingivan sonon (malgranda diferenco), aŭ velan sonon (granda diferenco), por faciligi la elparolon: tranĉi, manĝi, longa, banko k.a. Tio estas senproblema, ĉar ne ekzistas gingiva aŭ vela nazaj sonoj, kun kiuj N povus konfuziĝi.

ceigered (Переглянути профіль) 25 січня 2011 р. 09:26:57

I'd slightly warn against pronouncing the ng in lingvo/longa/fingro like in the English riNG or kiNG since some languages do assimilate nk to a ng sound. I don't know if the germanic and japonic* languages have enough presence in the world for people from languages other than them to recognise NG pronounced as in riNG as being an actual NG and not just a strange n.

*even then, Japanese has it's own assimilation rules totally different to the germanic languages.

(Of course, English is downright unhelpful in how it shows what is a hard "ng" sound and what is a soft "ng" sound, unlike the Indonesian ng vs ngg - I would imagine that might be a source of confusion).

The NG in riNG, but then followed by a hard G? Exactly like the English "loNGer", "fiNGer"? That's universally acceptable and I don't think even debatable that that is perfectly OK if not normal.

So, to Pinto:
Feel free to pronounce lingvo as "ling gvo" and not "linn gvo". The latter actually sounds very unnatural and I haven't heard it used ever before except when you have a hiatus between words (en Google mi trovis interesaĵon, for example).

sudanglo (Переглянути профіль) 25 січня 2011 р. 11:01:27

To pronounce Lingvo as a English speaker would say 'Ring Vera, will you?' is definitely wrong in my book.

The hard 'g' must be heard in Esperanto - which it isn't in the English sentence above.

In any case it is inappropriate to teach beginners deviations from the rule that each letter is pronounced. The Poles don't live in Po-lando, they live in Pol-lando.

What next? will you have people drop the 'g' in Engaĝi, or En Germanujo, or Engluti.

Mi esta AnGlo, ne A(ng)lo.

ceigered (Переглянути профіль) 25 січня 2011 р. 13:26:05

(not to mention it's easier to make a ngg sound (rinG Garry) in things like "lingvo" etc, at least for me. Trying to pronounce it with just a soft "ng" like in "riNG us" often ends up with me saying "limvo", as if EO's undergone some Romanian/Sardinian-esque sound shift lango.gif)

darkweasel (Переглянути профіль) 25 січня 2011 р. 13:32:21

Ah, seems that I have misunderstood something.

The G has to be heard, but you're allowed to assimilate the N in order to facilitate the pronunciation.

T0dd (Переглянути профіль) 25 січня 2011 р. 14:19:47

darkweasel:Ah, seems that I have misunderstood something.

The G has to be heard, but you're allowed to assimilate the N in order to facilitate the pronunciation.
In my dialect of English, and I suppose many others, the G in "finger" and "longer" is clearly pronounced, but the N is somewhat nasalized. In "singer", the N is nasalized but the G isn't pronounced at all.

I think we all agree that it's wrong to drop the G in Esperanto words that have NG. The question is whether the nasalized N is acceptable.

Do we pronounce LONGA as we would pronounce "loan garment", minus the last bit? In that case the N is not nasalized (more than usual). Or are we allowed to pronounce it analogously to the sound in "finger" and "longer".

So it's really about the nasalization of the N, not the G, which absolutely must be pronounced like any other G. It's my understanding that the nasalized N is acceptable, but I don't know if it's "preferred".

darkweasel (Переглянути профіль) 25 січня 2011 р. 14:28:47

T0dd:It's my understanding that the nasalized N is acceptable, but I don't know if it's "preferred".
Both pronunciations are correct since they are mere variations of the same phoneme.

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