Al la enhavo

The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

de sudanglo, 2011-marto-02

Mesaĝoj: 61

Lingvo: English

gyrus (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-02 18:39:12

I tend to use acxa for evil just because it's stronger than malbona.

T0dd (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-02 18:51:03

gyrus:I tend to use acxa for evil just because it's stronger than malbona.
I think AĈA, like MALBONA, or MALBONEGA, encompasses both moral and non-moral senses of badness, so it's not quite as specific as "evil". A really bad movie might be AĈA, but not usually evil.

biguglydave (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-02 19:58:10

darkweasel:Maybe using malica?
Forget "maybe", I think that you're spot on! That's not to say that the word doesn't carry a lot of cultural baggage in western society. If I hadn't grown up in Protestant-land, I'm not so sure that I would understand the cultural distinction so clearly. That's why I like darkweasel's suggestion.

By the way, I think Chinese closely confirms with "malica". I started a Chinese class earlier this year, and we discussed this exact concept in class. As near as I can tell, the distinction between the meanings of "good", "bad" and "evil" in Chinese has a lot to do with the perceived intentions of the actors. Proactively being bad (i.e. malicious) is not only "bad" (opposite of "good"), but it is "evil" because of intent. This same concept is applied to the supernatural in folk tales.

Epikuro57 (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-02 20:01:29

I suggest La Bona, la Mava kaj la Turpa.

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-02 20:44:08

I wouldn't use "aĉa" for "evil"

Something aĉa is just bad in quality or appearance, not morally bad.

I think "malica" is the best translation for evil.

sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-02 22:11:28

OK folks. So my question now is is what are the connotations of 'mava'. Is this neologism closer to 'evil'. Can a haircut be 'mava'?

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-02 23:55:56

I don't own PIV but I have read that PIV marks "mava" as being equivalent to "malbona".

I am personally inclined to disagree with that, though I have no evidence to back up my disagreement. Practically, I have never seen "mava" used, not even once, except in discussions of the word itself (mainly essays giving opinions on neologisms). But from previous experience, I've found that the neologism rarely means exactly the same as the constructed word. Normally neologisms that survive as poetic words, as opposed to the ones that die off, carve out their own specific meaning. For example "olda" has come to mean not just "maljuna", but also out of date, out of touch. The "olduloj" of the Esperanto movement are therefore not just people who are old, but they are old people who are out of touch with how things are today. It's a pejorative term, not a simple description of age.

Since I have never really seen "mava" used I have no idea what connotation it may have picked up, though I did see hints online that it isn't the exact equivalent of "malbona".

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For anyone who has a little time, there are some essays on neologisms here and here.

biguglydave (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-03 00:42:40

sudanglo:Can a haircut be 'mava'?
Based on some quick searches using Kukolo, the answer seems to be "yes". Lots of references to everyday, not particularly evil happenings exist; e.g. the weather, clothing, music, etc.

However, there are more than a few Kukolo hits with specific references to obviously "evil" topics; e.g. Stalin, Hitler, etc. Some folks obviously picked up on this subtelty of meaning somewhere.

Does anyone know the etymology of "mav-"? I'm willing to learn.

T0dd (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-03 01:22:16

biguglydave:
Does anyone know the etymology of "mav-"? I'm willing to learn.
I assume it's from French "mauvais", which simply means "bad".

And I agree that it's problematic to try to find connotations in words that are used too seldom to acquire them. If MAVA makes it to the bigtime, it may diverge from MALBONA, or it may not.

As erinja points out, OLDA is a neologism that has become entrenched, and it has diverged from MALJUNA in that it adds the aspect of being out of touch, as we might convey by "old-timer" in English. As such, it has come to occupy a somewhat different semantic space, and my guess is that it will become official at some point.

MAVA, on the other hand, doesn't seem to be anywhere near that level of currency in Esperanto.

ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-03 02:29:49

Mava simply seems to mean "what is negative".
Malbona means "the opposite to what is perceived as positive". Normally, they'd correlate in meaning. In fact, the importance of mava vs malbona is that mava is a name for the concept that does not assume that "bona" is the default, correct, original or normal state. Malbona assumes that bona is normal, correct, the way things are meant to be.

Thus there isn't any dire need for the word outside of poetic use, but I still would like mava to gain popularity along with liva.

(Interestingly, I've heard that stuff sensed using the right side of the body is processed with the left side of the brain which is associated with positivity. Is that true? Perhaps why "right" is seen as being more important than "left" in EO, albeit subconsciously!)

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