Meddelanden: 51
Språk: English
ceigered (Visa profilen) 20 mars 2011 11:59:22
Miland (Visa profilen) 20 mars 2011 12:23:37
ceigered:OK, so .. you could have .. "Permesu (lasu?) min prezenti al vi S-ro Ng"..?IMO, yes.
darkweasel (Visa profilen) 20 mars 2011 12:34:31
Miland:IMO, no. Permesu al mi but lasu min.ceigered:OK, so .. you could have .. "Permesu (lasu?) min prezenti al vi S-ro Ng"..?IMO, yes.
sudanglo (Visa profilen) 20 mars 2011 12:34:34
For the introduction (referring to the other thread) I like permesu, ke mi prezentu ..., but permesu al mi, ke mi prezentu... is OK.
Permesu min X-i, sort of jars, but I can't declare it absolutely wrong.
Tip: If you go to Tekstaro and use your mouse over the blue M's next to each text in the corpus you can get access to the text and therefore read quite a bit of Esperanto at no cost.
Miland (Visa profilen) 20 mars 2011 12:41:37
darkweasel:Permesi according to PIV 2005 is transitive, and therefore can take a direct object, even if al is often used with such verbs.Miland:IMO, no. Permesu al mi..ceigered:OK, so .. you could have .. "Permesu (lasu?) min prezenti al vi S-ro Ng"..?IMO, yes.
sudanglo (Visa profilen) 20 mars 2011 12:47:54
But with a personal referent, I prefer permesi al vi/ni/ŝi etc.
You would get a double accusative (with attendant confusion) if you allowed permesi min tion.
Miland (Visa profilen) 20 mars 2011 12:52:17
sudanglo:You would get a double accusative (with attendant confusion) if you allowed permesi min tion.Yes, that's a good reason to use al in such circumstances.
erinja (Visa profilen) 20 mars 2011 13:12:01
Telefoni is also a transitive verb, but the object of telefoni is the information being passed over the telephone.
So you definitely shouldn't say *telefonu min, instead you would say telefonu al mi. Or with an object, telefonu viajn planojn al mi.
ceigered (Visa profilen) 20 mars 2011 13:21:55
so "Permesi" is "to permit something (an action)", where as "lasu" in that context would be more "to let something (the doer of the action) out, to let free", yes?
Thanks for all that guys!
(RE that bit where Miland and Darkweasel disagree (or something like that), I'm just gonna go with "lasu min" rather than "permesi min" anyway since if I'm gonna go with the longer word I figure I might as well write it out in full as "permesi al mi"
)I might end up reading a bit more of the tekstaro amongst other things in the EO world during the week at university where I'm removed from my home computer and waiting an hour for the next bus home.
Miland (Visa profilen) 20 mars 2011 14:16:39
erinja:Telefoni is also a transitive verb, but the object of telefoni is the information being passed over the telephone.That is consistent with PIV 2005, but has there not been a popular use of telefoni, similar to words like "knifed (someone)"? Googling telefoni min or telefonu min will show what I mean.