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Noob questions.

de yodle, 2011-marto-27

Mesaĝoj: 27

Lingvo: English

yodle (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-27 02:01:57

Sorry if I missed these in any FAQ:

Is it important to roll one's R's in Esperanto (i.e. "trill")? I have extreme difficulty rolling my R's.

What is the difference between ĥ and h? I can hardly perceive a difference in the sound.

Where can I find a good thorough En-Eo / Eo-En dictionary that will work on Linux or a Java or an on-line dictionary? I've found this dictionary, but it represents letters such as ĥ as "hx".

Thanks.

T0dd (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-27 02:31:26

Do the best you can with the 'r's. You'll get better at it. The normal English 'r' is pretty unusual in the world, so a flapped or rolled 'r' is better.

The 'hx' sound is guttural, and isn't part of American English, but it's not hard to pronounce. Think of the sound you make when getting ready to spit. It's not used in many Esperanto words anyway.

Note that the 'x' system is used by some when on a device that can't do the supersigns, as I am right now on my BlackBerry.

3rdblade (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-27 02:38:55

yodle:Sorry if I missed these in any FAQ:

Is it important to roll one's R's in Esperanto (i.e. "trill")? I have extreme difficulty rolling my R's.
Do your best to trill the rs, but if you want to hear how advanced speakers do it, listen to this bloke and try to follow along with the text.

yodle:What is the difference between ĥ and h? I can hardly perceive a difference in the sound.
'h' is the same as in English, 'ĥ' is like the ch in the Scottish 'loch'. It's sort of like clearing your throat. Not common. I'm a fan, though. I couldn't get away with 'Ĥinio' when I said it recently ('Ĉinio' is more common, I think. It means 'China')

yodle:Where can I find a good thorough En-Eo / Eo-En dictionary that will work on Linux or a Java or an on-line dictionary? I've found this dictionary, but it represents letters such as ĥ as "hx".
Thanks.
Do a 'find and replace' on your word processor to change the hx, cx etc. into ĥ and ĉ. It won't take too long.

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-27 02:59:36

Does the lernu dictionary not work for you, on the right-hand side of your screen?

There is a guy who has written a plasmoid script using the lernu dictionary. I have no idea what a plasmoid script is, but I understand that it's some Linux-related thing. You can find that here

You can also access the lernu dictionary without loading the entire lernu site.

www.simplavortaro.org is a useful site that is a re-working of the well-known reta-vortaro.de, but it's primarily an Eo-Eo dictionary, and not every word there has an English translation. However it is useful even to beginners because it tells you transitivity, which isn't always obvious from an English-Esperanto dictionary.

ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-27 04:23:42

T0dd:Do the best you can with the 'r's. You'll get better at it. The normal English 'r' is pretty unusual in the world, so a flapped or rolled 'r' is better.
Well, not so much that it's unusual (its actually surprisingly common thanks to English but also some eastern languages have it or related sounds like Chinese and I swear vietnamese and even tibetan), but despite how common it is its a very subtle sound that by itself is hard to pick up, so instead it often changes other sounds around (eg English TR, er, ar, ur, ir). For similar reasons the French and German R sounds arent recommended, especially since some languages have the same sounds but for letters like G etc.

A trilled R is by far the most noticeable and pure R sound, and while it makes it a bit of an obnoxious sound Imho (hehe) its the best R sound for Esperanto okulumo.gif

(taps sound a bit too much like l's and d's to me, but if you can do a clear tap like a Spaniard then theres no problem)

yodle (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-29 00:25:37

Thank you all for your replies. I've got my "ĥ" down pat but I still cant trill my R's.

I've tried the Lernu dictionary but it doesn't have as many words as a English dictionary does. I'm also looking for a dictionary that has entomologies (words are easier to remember for me when I know what language they came from).

Also, what is transitivity? I Googled it but didn't quite understand the definition.

3rdblade (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-29 01:14:11

yodle:Also, what is transitivity? I Googled it but didn't quite understand the definition.
When the subject does something to the object, more or less. Eg. "He ate a sandwich." 'Ate' is transitive. So, "Li manĝis sandviĉon." ('He' is the subject and 'sandwich' is the direct object.)

Intransitive is when there's no direct object of the action described by the verb. Eg. "He lives in a space station." "Li loĝas en kosmostacio." He's not doing anything directly to the space station, unlike the sandwich.

jchthys (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-29 01:30:12

yodle:I'm also looking for a dictionary that has entomologies (words are easier to remember for me when I know what language they came from).
Normally you won't find etymologies in dictionaries, since Esperanto is technically an constructed language. However, there is an etymological dictionary available online (no definitions, but quite a few derivations).

Rohan (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-29 05:01:59

A piece of trilly trivia: I read somewhere that the French R used to be pronounced as an alveolar trill (Spanish-style), but that changed thanks to some French king who had a cleft palate and hence couldn't produce an alveolar trill. He compensated by making a uvular trill instead, and this began to be imitated, with the effects on Standard French being what we see today.

Leke (Montri la profilon) 2011-marto-29 08:07:25

yodle:Thank you all for your replies. I've got my "ĥ" down pat but I still cant trill my R's.
Keep at it! It took me a few months of practice when I started learning Finnish. You'll really enjoy trilling once you get the hang of it.
Actually, not being able to trill is not that uncommon in Finland. The people that can't seem to, get by regardless.

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