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abstract tenses!?

от willhite2, 20 април 2011

Съобщения: 58

Език: English

willhite2 (Покажи профила) 20 април 2011, 04:41:10

are these sensible translations... other ways?

I will have gone by then.
Mi irus antaŭ tiam.

He will have eaten lunch by now.
Li manĝus antaŭ nun.

I would have jumped higher if I were you.
Mi saltis[us?] pli alte se estus vi.
___

thanks in advance!

adrideo (Покажи профила) 20 април 2011, 04:58:54

The conditional -us ending is generally translated into English as "would ____." It doesn't have a tense, so it could also be used as "would have."

For "will have," I would say "estos ___inta"

3rdblade (Покажи профила) 20 април 2011, 05:40:05

#1: "Mi estos irinta hejmen tiam."

'jam' is a translation of 'by now', as well as 'already.

#2: "Li jam estos manĝinta."

#3: "Mi saltus pli alte, se mi vin estus."

Kirilo81 (Покажи профила) 20 април 2011, 06:44:39

3rdblade:
#3: "Mi saltus pli alte, se mi vin estus."
...se mi estus vi.

Miland (Покажи профила) 20 април 2011, 08:52:05

willhite2:are these sensible translations... other ways?
Here are some suggestions.

(a) I will have gone by then.
Tiam mi ne plu estos ĉi tie or Tiam mi estos foririnta or Ĝis tiam mi foriros.

(b) He will have eaten lunch by now.
Verŝajne li jam tagmanĝis.

(c) I would have jumped higher if I were you.
Se mi estus vi, mi saltus pli alte.

darkweasel (Покажи профила) 20 април 2011, 08:58:14

adrideo:The conditional -us ending is generally translated into English as "would ____." It doesn't have a tense, so it could also be used as "would have."
Yes, it could be used for the past conditional as well - but I think that it is clearer to use -intus for this to explicitly mark the tense.

Generally Miland's proposals are good, but Se mi estus vi, mi saltus pli alte. could translate back to "If I were you, I'd jump higher" - which is why I like to use saltintus here.

Miland (Покажи профила) 20 април 2011, 09:11:10

darkweasel:Se mi estus vi, mi saltus pli alte. could translate back to "If I were you, I'd jump higher" - which is why I like to use saltintus here.
In that case, why not be consistent and say Se mi estintus vi, mi saltintus pli alte? However I've never seen such a form used. The meaning is about a hypothetical past, so there would not be much gained by attempting such precision.

tommjames (Покажи профила) 20 април 2011, 09:29:10

willhite2:I would have [..] if I were you.
Note that this is a colloquial way of saying "you should have". If you don't care about the nuances imparted by that phrase (possibly something to do with politeness, in an "in my opinion" type of way) then in some cases it might not be necessary to translate it literally. An alternative would be "vi devintus salti pli alte", or even just "vi devus salti pli alte" if context clearly sets it in the past.

horsto (Покажи профила) 20 април 2011, 12:20:20

salti pli alten, in my opinion.

Kirilo81 (Покажи профила) 20 април 2011, 12:56:33

horsto:salti pli alten, in my opinion.
Both - and. alte gives a measure, alten a goal.

BTW: I don't like these estus X-inta / X-intus forms at all.
The Esperanto conditional is calqued from the slavic conditional, which doesn't distinguish tences (but aspect). Speakers of romance or germanic languages, however, use to distinguish between irrational past and present, so they use the combination with participle for the first one.
But -int- does not indicate absolut past, but anteriority to a reference point which may lie in the past, presence or future. And in most cases you don't need such precision.

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