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Ballpoint Pens

از 3rdblade, 26 آوریل 2011

پست‌ها: 64

زبان: English

3rdblade (نمایش مشخصات) 26 آوریل 2011،‏ 10:09:51

We used to call a ballpoint pen a 'biro', after its Hungarian inventor, which I think it fitting. With the telltale final 'o' and the east European origin, I was sure it was going to be 'biro' in EO as well, but no. 'Biro' means a directional bearing, and may predate the invention of the ballpoint pen. Meanwhile the word for ballpoint pen is 'globkrajono.'

It's fallen out of use, probably because they are ubiquitous now so people just say 'pen', but also possibly because of 'freedom fries/Alsatian dog' reasons, i.e. because Hungary was on the other side from the English-speaking world during the Cold War. I still use 'biro' from time to time.

Do any other native English speakers here call it a 'biro'?

And for some EO practice: "La biro de la avio estas norda."

sudanglo (نمایش مشخصات) 26 آوریل 2011،‏ 10:21:56

The use of 'biro' in British English seems to me rare now. Though you will occasionally hear it for ball-point pen.

In Esperanto the most common term is skribilo. But what I would do if I asked for a skribilo and someone gave me a pencil, I don't know. I think I would be a bit surprised.

ceigered (نمایش مشخصات) 26 آوریل 2011،‏ 12:05:40

Biro is definitely used with everyone I know, but as Sudanglo says, it's not the most common word and "pen" is more common. Mostly because the distinction is between "normal pens" (biros) and "fancy pens" (everything else okulumo.gif)

erinja (نمایش مشخصات) 26 آوریل 2011،‏ 13:20:55

Most Americans would have no idea what a "biro" is. We say "ballpoint pen". Almost no Americans write with fountain pens anymore, so we have no need to distinguish between them. I was really surprised, the first time I visited the UK, that fountain pens are readily available everywhere.

"Pen", generic, would be understood to mean a ballpoint pen. If you were describing another kind of pen, you'd specify - felt tip pen, roller ball pen, fountain pen, etc.

As for Esperanto, I tend to use the generic "skribilo" when it doesn't matter if I'm given a pen or a pencil. The Free Esperanto Course, through which I learned Esperanto, taught "plumo" to mean "pen", so I have always used "plumo" to specify a pen versus a pencil (krajono).

It might be a bit old-fashioned in the Esperanto of today but I guess I used it seldom enough that it was never an issue. And I never needed to specify a ballpoint pen in Esperanto, that I can recall.

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Edit: as an additional note, "globkrajono" seems shady to me. I always learned that a krajono was a pencil, or at least, that a krajono is a skribilo that uses graphite for writing. In my mind a "globkrajono" would use a ball of graphite to write! But maybe there has been a shift. Can anyone tell us what PIV says? ReVo is firmly in the "krajono = wood & graphite" camp.

razlem (نمایش مشخصات) 26 آوریل 2011،‏ 13:22:01

I've never heard the word "biro" until now ._.

tommjames (نمایش مشخصات) 26 آوریل 2011،‏ 14:06:05

erinja:Can anyone tell us what PIV says? ReVo is firmly in the "krajono = wood & graphite" camp.
NPIV (2002) says "el grafito aŭ alia substanco".

Under the definition for krajono there is:

glob~o. ~o, entenanta specon de inko, kiun globeto, ruliĝanta en ĝia pinto, demetas sur la paperon.

3rdblade (نمایش مشخصات) 26 آوریل 2011،‏ 14:08:32

erinja:Edit: as an additional note, "globkrajono" seems shady to me.
'Globkrajono' is from the McLinen dictionary; I thought it was a bit odd too when I read it as I'd learned 'krajono' to mean pencil.

adrideo (نمایش مشخصات) 26 آوریل 2011،‏ 14:10:22

Woops, I see I typed too slow to get the PIV answer in. But I'll translate the glob~o bit for those who need it:
"a pencil holding a sort of ink, which a small ball, rolling in its tip, dispenses on paper"

As for my usage, I learned 'plumo' first, and consequently tend to use that. When I ask for a 'skribilo', I don't expect a pen. I expect some sort of writing utensil.

I learned 'biro' as 'ballpoint pen' only when I was learning Polish and was told that 'długopis' meant 'biro'.

geo63 (نمایش مشخصات) 26 آوریل 2011،‏ 14:27:43

razlem:I've never heard the word "biro" until now ._.
You are not alone... sal.gif

Leporino (نمایش مشخصات) 26 آوریل 2011،‏ 14:50:03

The world is so funny! This thread really gave me a laugh. rido.gif

I live on the countryside of Northern Germany. Here the kids learn in school that a Kugelschreiber (ballpoint pen) is a biro in english.

Our kids write with a pencil in the 1st grade at school. In the 2nd grade they all start writing with a (Füller) fountain pen! With ink that you can erase with a "Tintenkiller" (ink-killer). You can get them in many different colors, with pictures and so on.

For at least 4 - 5 years they have to go on writing with the fountain pen. In the upper classes they're allowed to write with ballpoints.

sal.gif

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