Ballpoint Pens
글쓴이: 3rdblade, 2011년 4월 26일
글: 64
언어: English
3rdblade (프로필 보기) 2011년 4월 26일 오전 10:09:51
It's fallen out of use, probably because they are ubiquitous now so people just say 'pen', but also possibly because of 'freedom fries/Alsatian dog' reasons, i.e. because Hungary was on the other side from the English-speaking world during the Cold War. I still use 'biro' from time to time.
Do any other native English speakers here call it a 'biro'?
And for some EO practice: "La biro de la avio estas norda."
sudanglo (프로필 보기) 2011년 4월 26일 오전 10:21:56
In Esperanto the most common term is skribilo. But what I would do if I asked for a skribilo and someone gave me a pencil, I don't know. I think I would be a bit surprised.
) 
erinja (프로필 보기) 2011년 4월 26일 오후 1:20:55
"Pen", generic, would be understood to mean a ballpoint pen. If you were describing another kind of pen, you'd specify - felt tip pen, roller ball pen, fountain pen, etc.
As for Esperanto, I tend to use the generic "skribilo" when it doesn't matter if I'm given a pen or a pencil. The Free Esperanto Course, through which I learned Esperanto, taught "plumo" to mean "pen", so I have always used "plumo" to specify a pen versus a pencil (krajono).
It might be a bit old-fashioned in the Esperanto of today but I guess I used it seldom enough that it was never an issue. And I never needed to specify a ballpoint pen in Esperanto, that I can recall.
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Edit: as an additional note, "globkrajono" seems shady to me. I always learned that a krajono was a pencil, or at least, that a krajono is a skribilo that uses graphite for writing. In my mind a "globkrajono" would use a ball of graphite to write! But maybe there has been a shift. Can anyone tell us what PIV says? ReVo is firmly in the "krajono = wood & graphite" camp.
tommjames (프로필 보기) 2011년 4월 26일 오후 2:06:05
erinja:Can anyone tell us what PIV says? ReVo is firmly in the "krajono = wood & graphite" camp.NPIV (2002) says "el grafito aŭ alia substanco".
Under the definition for krajono there is:
glob~o. ~o, entenanta specon de inko, kiun globeto, ruliĝanta en ĝia pinto, demetas sur la paperon.
3rdblade (프로필 보기) 2011년 4월 26일 오후 2:08:32
erinja:Edit: as an additional note, "globkrajono" seems shady to me.'Globkrajono' is from the McLinen dictionary; I thought it was a bit odd too when I read it as I'd learned 'krajono' to mean pencil.
adrideo (프로필 보기) 2011년 4월 26일 오후 2:10:22
"a pencil holding a sort of ink, which a small ball, rolling in its tip, dispenses on paper"
As for my usage, I learned 'plumo' first, and consequently tend to use that. When I ask for a 'skribilo', I don't expect a pen. I expect some sort of writing utensil.
I learned 'biro' as 'ballpoint pen' only when I was learning Polish and was told that 'długopis' meant 'biro'.
geo63 (프로필 보기) 2011년 4월 26일 오후 2:27:43
razlem:I've never heard the word "biro" until now ._.You are not alone...
Leporino (프로필 보기) 2011년 4월 26일 오후 2:50:03
I live on the countryside of Northern Germany. Here the kids learn in school that a Kugelschreiber (ballpoint pen) is a biro in english.
Our kids write with a pencil in the 1st grade at school. In the 2nd grade they all start writing with a (Füller) fountain pen! With ink that you can erase with a "Tintenkiller" (ink-killer). You can get them in many different colors, with pictures and so on.
For at least 4 - 5 years they have to go on writing with the fountain pen. In the upper classes they're allowed to write with ballpoints.