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Combining Word vs Adjectives

od razlem, 28 kwietnia 2011

Wpisy: 21

Język: English

razlem (Pokaż profil) 28 kwietnia 2011, 15:08:18

How does one know when to combine a word or use an adjective instead?

For example, would "presidential debate" be 'prezidanta debato' or 'prezidantdebato'?

darkweasel (Pokaż profil) 28 kwietnia 2011, 15:12:25

You cannot say prezidanta debato because that would mean "presiding debate" (= a debate that presides). However this is the case only if the first part of the compound is a participle, and in other cases you can more or less freely elect (novula kurso vs. novulkurso).

source: Problemo pri O-finaĵaj participoj

Miland (Pokaż profil) 28 kwietnia 2011, 15:42:18

The word for a head of state is prezidento, so you could have prezidenta debato, or prezidentiĝa debato.

razlem (Pokaż profil) 28 kwietnia 2011, 17:25:43

Miland:The word for a head of state is prezidento, so you could have prezidenta debato, or prezidentiĝa debato.
But not prezidentdebato ?

darkweasel (Pokaż profil) 28 kwietnia 2011, 17:55:26

razlem:
Miland:The word for a head of state is prezidento, so you could have prezidenta debato, or prezidentiĝa debato.
But not prezidentdebato ?
That's possible too (if you really want to use prezidento).

Roberto12 (Pokaż profil) 28 kwietnia 2011, 17:55:33

What's the exact situation regarding the -anto/-ento words (e.g. prezidanto/prezidento, studanto/studento)? I would've thought the anto words would trump, and that the ento words should be discarded because they look like either (1) irregular derivatives, or (2) dehumanising compounds with the noun "entity".

darkweasel (Pokaż profil) 28 kwietnia 2011, 18:08:25

Roberto12:What's the exact situation regarding the -anto/-ento words (e.g. prezidanto/prezidento, studanto/studento)? I would've thought the anto words would trump, and that the ento words should be discarded because they look like either (1) irregular derivatives, or (2) dehumanising compounds with the noun "entity".
While prezidanto is regularly formed from PREZID/, PREZIDENT/ is a separate root.

From NPIV 2002:
*prezid/i (tr) 1 Konduki en ordo la diskutojn: ~i en kunsido, en tribunalo, en parlamento(B); ~i super la debatoj; mi ~os en la kongreso ne kiel aŭtoro, sed kiel «la plej kompetenta E-isto»(Z); li lerte ~is la UN-asembleon(M). 2 Havi la plej altan oficon en la gvidado de organizaĵo, regno k.a. ~ado. Agado de tiu, kiu ~as. ~anto 1 Tiu, kiu ~as en kunveno, kunsido: elekti ~anton por la laborkunsido; ~anto de la kongreso; aĝo~anto. 2 Tiu, kiu gvidas, kiel ĉefo, la laboradon k administradon de organizaĵo, estraro ks: la ~antoj de landaj asocioj(Z); la ~anto de UEA, de la Plenum-Komitato de SAT; la ~anto de grava firmo. 3 Respublikestro: la ~anto de la Germana Federacia Respubliko. ~antaro. ~anta kolektivo. ~anteco. Titolo k funkcio de ~anto. aĝo~anto. Plej aĝa membro de kunveno, rolanto, kiel provizora ~anto. vic~anto. Helpanto k eventuala anstataŭanto de ~anto: se mortas la ~anto de Usono, la vic~anto aŭtomate fariĝas ~anto.
prezident/o = prezidanto 3. ~ejo. Domo, palaco, kie sidas la ~o k liaj diversaj oficejoj.

This shows that NPIV 2002 prefers prezidanto.

The situation is quite different with studento and studanto because the first one is even Fundamental, while studi is only in 1OA. For that reason, NPIV doesn't even list studanto explicitly.

Miland (Pokaż profil) 29 kwietnia 2011, 13:27:53

razlem:
Miland:The word for a head of state is prezidento, so you could have prezidenta debato, or prezidentiĝa debato.
But not prezidentdebato ?
I would insert an o to make the combination easier to pronounce: prezidentodebato. However such a compound word would be a little too long in my view.

darkweasel:NPIV 2002 prefers prezidanto
Both words can be used to describe national leaders, but prezidento is designed to distinguish heads of state (or perhaps institutions) from chairmen presiding over a meeting (the third meaning of prezidanto in PIV).

darkweasel (Pokaż profil) 29 kwietnia 2011, 17:18:35

Miland:I wouldn't draw such a conclusion.
Page 38 has a "Listo de la signoj uzataj en la vortaro", which says that the sign = (used in the article about prezidento) "montras preferindan formon".

Miland:(the third meaning of prezidanto in PIV).
Uh? The third meaning of prezidanto is exactly a head of state.

razlem (Pokaż profil) 29 kwietnia 2011, 17:32:25

Miland:
razlem:
But not prezidentdebato ?
I would insert an o to make the combination easier to pronounce: prezidentodebato. However such a compound word would be a little too long in my view.
I was just wondering if it was possible, or if the other forms had different, specific meanings.

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