qwertz:Btw. can you put that in words what in detail make you feel that cramped classroom situation contains people which don't feel same wavelength? Is it a shortfall of the moderator/teacher etc.?

I'm a holisticist, so, it's everyone and everything's fault

But more seriously, it varies. If you *must* cramp people of different interests into the same classroom ("different chemistry" although in English that sounds a bit like something used when referring to why two lovers can't be together), I think a lot depends on the teacher. Because in a two-person conversation, each person has 50% of the responsibility to keep things going.

In a classroom though, I think it's more:
Person 1 40%, Teacher 40%, Remainder of class 20%
Person 2 40%, Teacher 40%, Remainder of class 20%
and so forth

(each person is responsible for roughly half of the interaction, the teacher is responsible for the other half, and the class influences the remainder of interaction)

so in a 20 person class, each person is about 60% responsible, where as the teacher is shouldered with about 800% responsibility, since everyone is paying attention to him or her and he or she is the one running the class. The students cooperating as a single entity have like 400% responsibility.

So the teacher definitely sets the mood. Sometimes though, the class can prevent the teacher from doing their job. If every person is not being cooperative, and the class as a whole is acting like a single uncooperative entity, it's just not going to matter what the teacher does as there's too much against them. But if the class has the potential to listen in on the teacher, and can get along, then the teacher's teaching style or communication with the class can make or break the result of the lesson, I think.

I think a realistic setting though is that in a good class, you'll have the teacher, each student and the entire student body all working together in harmony, where as a bad (yet still normal) class might be one where the class as a whole is not interacting well, (-20%), yet each student alone is still trying to make things work out. Perhaps they're just tired, or bored, or don't like each other.

paulopolo:What integrates people since the beginning(Big Bang ) is:
common food
common drinking of alcohol
common aim
common knowledge/acquaintanceship about themselves, I mean that members know each other(habits, needs, hobbies, angles).
common activities(playing paintball for example )
also feeling of community(in general) and self worth/ self esteem.
common discussions/debates
common common common

I agree (although the alcohol one isn't one I'd rely on haha).

Without that, the class/group doesn't work together, and each student/member is basically fighting for themselves which is lonely, AND needs more effort

I had lessons of integration when I was in secondary school. It was leaded by our school psychologist. And for example, once she said: " hey, each of you have to talk at least 5 min with every person here. So I talked with a girl I knew one year, but actually I've never talk with her, just "365 * (Hi!)" was everything what I told her throuhgout year.

Also in the clubs one could organize subclub like movie club: common watching a movie and then discussion with snacks(about movie). Almost everyone likes movies.
Subclub: "Theater"(very good activity to rise your feeling of self worth, and how to speak in front of the audience without being nervous), "Helping old people", "Common cleaning of nearby forest" And so so so onnnn.....

Well Esperantists surely have one thing that unites them - a common aim, to see the World take Esperanto more seriously.

Or if that seems too elevated you could say that they are united by their common hobby.

But I see the Esperanto movement as like a single issue political party, a bit like the Greens.

There a various ways that classes and meetings could be made more attractive. You only have to look around at other 'social' groups for ideas.

If people are prepared to come together in 'book clubs, where the sole uniting feature is communal participation in the study of a text, then I don't see the disparate backgrounds of the participants an insurmountable obstacle. Why not an Esperanto Book Club?

Another popular social evening is dance classes. Why couldn't Esperantists all be taught Salsa or Jive in Esperanto?

There are many possibilities, provided that you can recruit sufficient numbers to the cause - which may mean expanding events to include the suggested categories of Supporters.

Most interesting, your Italian observations Erinja.

This sociological study of esperanto movement is interesting.

There seems to be at least 3 parameters to take into account, to establish a taxonomy of esperantists:
- proficiency in the language,
- motivations to learn esperanto (linguistics, travel, politics...)
- other interests to communicate at international level (hobbies, etc.).

I fully support the idea of creating a status for esperanto supporters; it would allow better integration of spouses of esperantists in the movement.

To sudanglo:

Another popular social evening is dance classes. Why couldn't Esperantists all be taught Salsa or Jive in Esperanto?

The answer is obvious if you take it the other way: Why a teacher of Salsa or Jive will restrict his public to esperantists only? Dance is also an international language.

ceigered:So the teacher definitely sets the mood.

Or for the non-classroom but E-o club: an moderator/presenter sets the mood.

ceigered:
Sometimes though, the class can prevent the teacher from doing their job. If every person is not being cooperative, and the class as a whole is acting like a single uncooperative entity, it's just not going to matter what the teacher does as there's too much against them. But if the class has the potential to listen in on the teacher, and can get along, then the teacher's teaching style or communication with the class can make or break the result of the lesson, I think.

paulopolo:What integrates people since the beginning(Big Bang ) is:
common food
common drinking of alcohol
common aim
common knowledge/acquaintanceship about themselves, I mean that members know each other(habits, needs, hobbies, angles).
common activities(playing paintball for example )
also feeling of community(in general) and self worth/ self esteem.
common discussions/debates
common common common

Yes, I agree: "Common activities which create common experiences". Just sitting around doesn't create commoness. A strong part of my local E-o youth club prefers table gaming, which really isn't my kind of taste.

The next time I will try to motivate a common food preparation or common BBQ i.e. at the local town river (forget the construction area, It will be finished by the end of july).

paulopolo:I had lessons of integration when I was in secondary school. It was leaded by our school psychologist. And for example, once she said: " hey, each of you have to talk at least 5 min with every person here. So I talked with a girl I knew one year, but actually I've never talk with her, just "365 * (Hi!)" was everything what I told her throuhgout year.

Hej, hej, that's cool! You had integration lessons? I remember as a began my studies, students of culture management of the same university make a small street parade through Potsdam. With a samba musicans as guide. That was cool!

paulopolo:
Also in the clubs one could organize subclub like movie club: common watching a movie and then discussion with snacks(about movie). Almost everyone likes movies.

paulopolo:
Subclub: "Theater"(very good activity to rise your feeling of self worth, and how to speak in front of the audience without being nervous), ...

At Toastmaster someones also can learn how to speak in front of the audience without being nervous. The international Toastmaster network is quite wide spreaded and includes several language section. I.e. in Munich excist at least an German, French and an English Toastmasters club.

paulopolo:
"Helping old people", "Common cleaning of nearby forest" And so so so onnnn.....

You're really full of ideas. I know that actions from Polytechnical school times. It's nice that this ideas also are alive after die Wende.

Btw. does somebody know Timur und sein Trupp/Original: Тимур и его команда? Timurhilfe/Timur-Help contains the "Helping old people" idea, too.

Altebrilas: Why a teacher of Salsa or Jive will restrict his public to esperantists only?

Because one has to focus on something. This should be associated somehow with esperanto because without esperanto it is pointless.

Sudanglo you have a very good ideas

The next time I will try to motivate a common food preparation or common BBQ i.e. at the local town river (forget the construction area, It will be finished by the end of july).

Nice area, river and birds!

With a samba musicans as guide. That was cool!

Yeah, that's cool

sudanglo:
Or if that seems too elevated you could say that they are united by their common hobby.

No, I don't feel united with "Esperanto will solve every problem on earth"-finvenkistuloj.

sudanglo:
But I see the Esperanto movement as like a single issue political party, a bit like the Greens.

Which one? The European Free Alliance?

sudanglo:
There a various ways that classes and meetings could be made more attractive. You only have to look around at other 'social' groups for ideas.

Yes, but the concepts of these groups are not full adaptable. Take in mind the different Esperanto language proficiency of E-o club members. I.e. as an E-o beginner and more non-visual people I get bored very fast of theater in E-o language. Music is not a problem for me because of it doesn't need full understanding of the lyrics to take part of an E-o music event.

sudanglo:
If people are prepared to come together in 'book clubs, where the sole uniting feature is communal participation in the study of a text, then I don't see the disparate backgrounds of the participants an insurmountable obstacle. Why not an Esperanto Book Club?

I read at twitter, that the E-o Society of Washington is organizing Literatura Diskutrondo.

sudanglo:
Another popular social evening is dance classes. Why couldn't Esperantists all be taught Salsa or Jive in Esperanto?

Done by Leo at several Junulara Renkontiĝoj (IS, IJK k.t.p.)

sudanglo:
There are many possibilities, provided that you can recruit sufficient numbers to the cause - which may mean expanding events to include the suggested categories of Supporters.

I don't understand why the category "Supporters" (or Amikoj de Esperantujo) is on discussion at all. I believe only movaduloj have problems with that "liberal community way of thinking". Everbody should be free in deciscion how many time efforts someones put into learning of Esperanto language. If someones decides to be an eternal beginner. Doesn't matter, if s/he wants to support the E-o community with its excellent expertise in dancing, music recording and what ever, what is the problem? But, of course, these supporters also wanna see spreading their expertise inside the E-o community. If they will be block in the way "Hej, first learn Esperanto to B1 level, mate, then we will appreciate your efforts", they will, of course stop any support for Esperanto. More worse, there's a high possiblity that they will make against-efforts to Esperanto. Gratulo al vin movaduloj.

sudanglo:
Most interesting, your Italian observations Erinja.

@Erinja: Do you have a travel report of your E-o experiences in Italy? Would be quite interesting.