chicago1, please don't be a martyr.

Your ideas (or more precisely, your former tutor's ideas) were already given a fair hearing in another thread. It isn't fair to the people who read these forums to present us with the exact same ideas, AGAIN, and expect us to discuss them again.

And as we already know, most people make the decision not to learn Esperanto without even bothering to find out what its characteristics are. Therefore no collection of small changes would make people more likely to learn it, because most people make the decision not to learn it without knowing a single fact about Esperanto grammar.

It's like saying that you could sell me a Suzuki motorcycle if only Suzuki would change certain characteristics of their products. I know nothing about any kind of motorcycle, whether a Suzuki or any other brand. I don't believe I need a motorcycle, period, so your arguments would be totally lost on me, because what you're selling is something I don't want, no matter what the exact features are.

Most people have already decided they don't want an international language because we already have one (English). Most people dismiss the idea of Esperanto without learning anything about its grammar. Even if you were to straight out LIE to people about Esperanto's grammar, and make it sound like you could learn the language to fluency in only five days, most people still would not do it. So it makes no sense to suggest that by making a few changes, loads of people would start to learn it.

How about we go and change the US Constitution so that people will like America better? How about we go and change the Bible so that more people will convert to Christianity?

These suggestions are ridiculous, of course. Equally ridiculous is the suggestion that if you go and change Esperanto grammar all around, that it will gain more speakers (it's especially ridiculous in the sense that you will probably lose your current speakers, who are not interested in reforms, so you'd likely end up with a smaller community than the one you started out with.)

Ceiger 'Mi vidis katon kiu aspektis kiel tiu de mia patrino' - 'aperi' havas alian nuancon.

Absolutely, Erinja, it is a fundamental mistake to suppose that the world's failure to adopt Esperanto has anything to do with its structure.

And given the number of IL projects that have appeared since Esperanto and not taken off, it seems bonkers to imagine that any new project could gain a significant number of adherents.

Usage is everything. Furthermore, the history of Esperanto demonstrates how slow the process can be of converting a language projet to a community of speakers with a shared sense of meaning.

To take one small example, consider how much was involved to arrive at the point where a dictionary of the language like NPIV2005 could be produced.

Oh bother, I'm back here again. I did so well ignoring this thread for so long. What is it about old arguments that suck people in? At least reading this is marginally better than watching tv cop shows.

P.S. the weather has been lovely and sunny here.

chrisim101010:At least reading this is marginally better than watching tv cop shows.

You mean those reality ones that make you cringe how the narrator makes every detail sound dramatic and demonises anyone who did anything wrong while making the sentence sound cool?

Sundanglo:Ceiger 'Mi vidis katon kiu aspektis kiel tiu de mia patrino' - 'aperi' havas alian nuancon.

Chairs, mate - the false friend deceived me

ceigered:

chrisim101010:At least reading this is marginally better than watching tv cop shows.

You mean those reality ones that make you cringe how the narrator makes every detail sound dramatic and demonises anyone who did anything wrong while making the sentence sound cool?

Sundanglo:Ceiger 'Mi vidis katon kiu aspektis kiel tiu de mia patrino' - 'aperi' havas alian nuancon.

Chairs, mate - the false friend deceived me

Yep, those shows and the fiction ones where they are always having fun and never doing paperwork. The hospital dramas with their life advise are also cringe worthy.

I better mention esperanto so my message vorto appears related to the forums.
Hmmm, look at that, spell checker changed "sortof" into "vorto".

While tying these themes together, how about we come up for a name for bad TV dramas in Esperanto? I propose privivaj dramaĉoj - "terrible dramas about live".

(I was thinking "najborumaĵoj" - "things related to an abstract interpretation of "Neighbours", but I figured naming specifics might be a bit mean to any fans of the show).

chicago1:I only have this left to say:

"Oni tiu rifuzas sxangxo estas la akitekton da putrigxo. La nur homa institucio tiu rifuzas progreson estas la tombejo."

Oh dear, not again. Come back when you learned Esperanto properly.

Nobody is rejecting change. Esperanto is progressing, new words are introduced, old ones disappear. The way grammar is used is changeing.

But leave this debate to the ones who can speak the language. If you want to contribute, learn the language first.

And one more thing: If your change proposals are rejected, this does not mean, that any change is rejected.

Privivaj Dramaĉoj sounds good to me. However, lets improve the phrase to reduce confusion and make it easier for angluloj to pronounce. Doing so will cause mass global migration to Esperanto, attracted by hollywoodaĉoj and the magnificently improved Esperanto.

chicago1:I agree with my teacher that with only a few minor tweaks here and there, if the doctrinaire among us can stomach it, we would be close to breaking through to the mainstream.

Again here: Your teacher appearently does not know Esperanto properly. Otherwise he would not say, that the n-endings on adjectives are redundant. They are not.

Esperanto is now spoken out there for some 125 years. Do you really believe that someone who does not even know the language well enough to see for what grammatical features are needed, will propose changes, that will bring Esperanto to its break through to mainstream?

Your're serious about that? Sure?

Have you got an idea what other proposals were discussed in history? Have you or your teacher read the discussions that happened during the early years of Esperanto in the journal "La Esperantisto"?

chrisim101010:Doing so will cause mass global migration to Esperanto, attracted by hollywoodaĉoj and the magnificently improved Esperanto.

I find "$$$" is the best improved phrase in any language.