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Unusual usage?

від sudanglo, 2 червня 2011 р.

Повідомлення: 46

Мова: English

sudanglo (Переглянути профіль) 2 червня 2011 р. 10:02:11

I noticed a couple of sentences in Auld's translation of 'The Hound of the Baskervilles' that struck me as employing an unusual structure.

Bonŝanca pafo per mia revolvero eble lamigus lin, sed mi kunportis ĝin nur por defendi min atakatan, ne por ..

Piedsigno de la ĉashundo apudis lin kuŝantan.

Do these also strike you as unusual?

Chainy (Переглянути профіль) 2 червня 2011 р. 10:28:06

Bonŝanca pafo per mia revolvero eble lamigus lin, sed mi kunportis ĝin nur por defendi min atakatan, ne por ..
I don't know the whole sentence, but in that part of the sentence it appears to have the following meaning:

A lucky shot with my gun would maybe lame him, but I brought it only for defending myself when under attack, not for...
Piedsigno de la ĉashundo apudis lin kuŝantan.
The track of the hunting dog was next to where he was lying.
Do these also strike you as unusual?
I don't think so. Or have I missed something? Translating them into English certainly required bit of a rejig.

tommjames (Переглянути профіль) 2 червня 2011 р. 10:39:22

Those sentences (the last one in particular) look to me like a case of PMEG's "eble tamen n-finaĵo". The example in that page of "Li pentras ŝin nudan" seems to be in a similar vein.

But yes, I find them slightly unusual, inasmuch as those forms don't appear too often.

geo63 (Переглянути профіль) 2 червня 2011 р. 12:47:28

sudanglo:I noticed a couple of sentences in Auld's translation of 'The Hound of the Baskervilles' that struck me as employing an unusual structure.

Bonŝanca pafo per mia revolvero eble lamigus lin, sed mi kunportis ĝin nur por defendi min atakatan, ne por ..

Piedsigno de la ĉashundo apudis lin kuŝantan.

Do these also strike you as unusual?
First of all, please do not take my post as any atack on the English language (I must write that, because due to my poor English, I am being misunderstood by the natives in many of my harmless posts).

They are not strange to me because in my own language, Polish, we speak almost the same. We use accusative on both the pronoun and the participle in such situations. So for a Pole, it looks quite normal.

Altebrilas (Переглянути профіль) 2 червня 2011 р. 13:04:48

sudanglo:I noticed a couple of sentences in Auld's translation of 'The Hound of the Baskervilles' that struck me as employing an unusual structure.

Bonŝanca pafo per mia revolvero eble lamigus lin, sed mi kunportis ĝin nur por defendi min atakatan, ne por ..

Piedsigno de la ĉashundo apudis lin kuŝantan.

Do these also strike you as unusual?
Jes, it seems strange to me. I note, in addition, that the meaning is not the same:

...sed mi kunportis ĝin nur por defendi min se mi estus atakata

Piedsigno de la ĉashundo apudis lin kiu estis kuŝanta.


You need a lot of pragmatics to palliate flexible semantics... rideto.gif

Chainy (Переглянути профіль) 2 червня 2011 р. 13:46:54

geo63:
They are not strange to me because in my own language, Polish, we speak almost the same. We use accusative on both the pronoun and the participle in such situations. So for a Pole, it looks quite normal.
Could you give the Polish translations for those sentences? I'm just interested in how you'd do it.

geo63 (Переглянути профіль) 2 червня 2011 р. 13:59:52

Chainy:
geo63:
They are not strange to me because in my own language, Polish, we speak almost the same. We use accusative on both the pronoun and the participle in such situations. So for a Pole, it looks quite normal.
Could you give the Polish translations for those sentences? I'm just interested in how you'd do it.
These particular sentences would be translated differently into Polish. But in similar situations:

ŝi lavata = ona myta
mi vidas ŝin lavatan = widzę ją mytą

li kuŝanta = on leżący
apudis lin kuŝantan = obok niego leżącego

As for the translation:

Bonŝanca pafo per mia revolvero eble lamigus lin, sed mi kunportis ĝin nur por defendi min atakatan, ne por ..

Celny strzał z mojego rewolweru pewnie by go okulawił, lecz wziąłem go tylko do swojej obrony przed atakiem, a nie do...

Piedsigno de la ĉashundo apudis lin kuŝantan.

Odcisk łapy psa myśliwskiego znajdował się obok niego leżącego.

T0dd (Переглянути профіль) 2 червня 2011 р. 14:44:06

sudanglo:I noticed a couple of sentences in Auld's translation of 'The Hound of the Baskervilles' that struck me as employing an unusual structure.

Bonŝanca pafo per mia revolvero eble lamigus lin, sed mi kunportis ĝin nur por defendi min atakatan, ne por ..

Piedsigno de la ĉashundo apudis lin kuŝantan.

Do these also strike you as unusual?
Yes, but they also strike me as excellent examples of how to use Esperanto creatively and efficiently, without falling back upon native language forms.

I wonder if atakate and kuŝante would also work...

geo63 (Переглянути профіль) 2 червня 2011 р. 15:01:28

T0dd:I wonder if atakate and kuŝante would also work...
Yes, they would, but the word order would have to be reorganized, I think.

Chainy (Переглянути профіль) 2 червня 2011 р. 15:36:11

geo63:
T0dd:I wonder if atakate and kuŝante would also work...
Yes, they would, but the word order would have to be reorganized, I think.
I can't think of any way of making these forms work in the above sentence.

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