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How to say "so that"

di pikolas, 30 giugno 2011

Messaggi: 66

Lingua: English

Miland (Mostra il profilo) 30 giugno 2011 18:23:23

darkweasel:In your example sentence I'd use "por ke". Don't forget to put the verb in the subclause into the u-form.
+1

geo63 (Mostra il profilo) 30 giugno 2011 19:52:01

mnlg:I bought the newspaper [acting] in such a way that I could be able to read the news.
How could you buy a newspaper in such a way that you could not read the news? Can you buy it unreadable? Or perhaps painted with black ink to hide its contents? I don't see much sense in this... Let's stay with the first version which is simple and clear.

mnlg (Mostra il profilo) 30 giugno 2011 21:51:01

geo63:How could you buy a newspaper in such a way that you could not read the news?
You buy one that does not have any. ridulo.gif

sudanglo (Mostra il profilo) 01 luglio 2011 09:06:59

If you translate the expression 'tiel ke' into English with 'such that' then this makes the account of the purchase of the newspaper sound strange.

However, 'Mi aĉetis ĵurnalon tiel ke mi povu/povis legi la lastajn informojn pri la Eŭro- krizo' sounds perfectly ordinary in Esperanto to my ear.

You can also use 'tial ke' as a substitute for 'por ke'.

If you want to see a distinction between the two, then in the case of 'por ke' you are giving an account in terms of your purpose (goal), whereas 'tial ke' explains your reason (motivation).

'Tiel ke', perhaps, gives an account in terms of the result.

'Por ke' will be followed by the verb in the -u form. 'Tiel ke' could be followed by an -is form.

ceigered (Mostra il profilo) 01 luglio 2011 09:24:42

mnlg:
geo63:How could you buy a newspaper in such a way that you could not read the news?
You buy one that does not have any. ridulo.gif
There's a lot of publications like that nowadays rido.gif.

La publikiga firmo faris la gazeton kun nur amuzaĵoj, por ke ili profitus. Bedaŭrinde, la ordinara homo aĉetis la gazeton por ke ili lernus pri multaj aferoj tra la mondo. Pro tiu ĉi stranga situacio, la homo aĉetis la gazeton tiel ke li ne povis legi la novaĵojn.

The only problem about that though that I can tell is that it doesn't have the same impact as English, since "gazeto" and "novaĵoj" don't share the same roots...

Is there another way to say newspaper? okulumo.gif

Kraughne (Mostra il profilo) 01 luglio 2011 10:30:12

ceigered:La publikiga firmo faris la gazeton el nur amuzaĵoj, por ke ĝi profitu. Bedaŭrinde, la ordinara homo aĉetis la gazeton por ke li lernu pri multaj aferoj en la mondo. Pro tiu ĉi stranga situacio, la homo aĉetis la gazeton tiel ke li ne povis legi la novaĵojn.
Sometimes these sprees take on a life of their own. Honestly it makes me feel kind of bad, heh. It's even likely someone will correct my corrections.

ceigered:Is there another way to say newspaper? okulumo.gif
Ĵurnalo. ;P

ceigered (Mostra il profilo) 01 luglio 2011 10:55:13

Kraughne:
ceigered:La publikiga firmo faris la gazeton el nur amuzaĵoj, por ke ĝi profitu. Bedaŭrinde, la ordinara homo aĉetis la gazeton por ke li lernu pri multaj aferoj en la mondo. Pro tiu ĉi stranga situacio, la homo aĉetis la gazeton tiel ke li ne povis legi la novaĵojn.
Sometimes these sprees take on a life of their own. Honestly it makes me feel kind of bad, heh. It's even likely someone will correct my corrections.
I don't think "kun", "tra" and debatably "ili" needed corrections so much as they could be argued as being a different style, but thanks for correcting my -us's which should be just-u's rido.gif.

That said, I swear I've seen "por ke (blah blah blah)-us" done before (which probably inspired me to use -us instead of -u)... Wonder where...

Chainy (Mostra il profilo) 01 luglio 2011 12:46:16

sudanglo:
However, 'Mi aĉetis ĵurnalon tiel ke mi povu/povis legi la lastajn informojn pri la Eŭro- krizo' sounds perfectly ordinary in Esperanto to my ear.
I'm very surprised by your opinion here. "Tiel" means "in such a way" so it sounds really silly in the above sentence.

sudanglo:
You can also use 'tial ke' as a substitute for 'por ke'.
It's not a subsitute, but another meaning. In fact 'tial ke' is pretty much the same as 'ĉar' or 'pro tio, ke'

See PMEG: here

Chainy (Mostra il profilo) 01 luglio 2011 12:49:27

ceigered:La publikiga firmo faris la gazeton kun nur amuzaĵoj, por ke ili profitus. Bedaŭrinde, la ordinara homo aĉetis la gazeton por ke ili lernus pri multaj aferoj tra la mondo. Pro tiu ĉi stranga situacio, la homo aĉetis la gazeton tiel ke li ne povis legi la novaĵojn.
How would you put that last sentence in English?! It sounds pretty weird.

ceigered (Mostra il profilo) 01 luglio 2011 13:07:20

Chainy:
ceigered:La publikiga firmo faris la gazeton kun nur amuzaĵoj, por ke ili profitus. Bedaŭrinde, la ordinara homo aĉetis la gazeton por ke ili lernus pri multaj aferoj tra la mondo. Pro tiu ĉi stranga situacio, la homo aĉetis la gazeton tiel ke li ne povis legi la novaĵojn.
How would you put that last sentence in English?! It sounds pretty weird.
Well, I was aiming for weird so good to see I'm on the right track rido.gif.

"Because of this strange situation, the person bought the gazette such that (or "in that way that") he couldn't read the news".

Probably "Pro tiu ĉi situacio, la homo kiu aĉetis la gazeton ne povis legi la novaĵojn" is better, but that would defeat the point of writing such a convoluted example of both "por ke" and "tiel ke"...

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