Mensagens: 66
Idioma: English
Miland (Mostrar o perfil) 30 de junho de 2011 18:23:23
darkweasel:In your example sentence I'd use "por ke". Don't forget to put the verb in the subclause into the u-form.+1
geo63 (Mostrar o perfil) 30 de junho de 2011 19:52:01
mnlg:I bought the newspaper [acting] in such a way that I could be able to read the news.How could you buy a newspaper in such a way that you could not read the news? Can you buy it unreadable? Or perhaps painted with black ink to hide its contents? I don't see much sense in this... Let's stay with the first version which is simple and clear.
mnlg (Mostrar o perfil) 30 de junho de 2011 21:51:01
geo63:How could you buy a newspaper in such a way that you could not read the news?You buy one that does not have any.
sudanglo (Mostrar o perfil) 1 de julho de 2011 09:06:59
However, 'Mi aĉetis ĵurnalon tiel ke mi povu/povis legi la lastajn informojn pri la Eŭro- krizo' sounds perfectly ordinary in Esperanto to my ear.
You can also use 'tial ke' as a substitute for 'por ke'.
If you want to see a distinction between the two, then in the case of 'por ke' you are giving an account in terms of your purpose (goal), whereas 'tial ke' explains your reason (motivation).
'Tiel ke', perhaps, gives an account in terms of the result.
'Por ke' will be followed by the verb in the -u form. 'Tiel ke' could be followed by an -is form.
ceigered (Mostrar o perfil) 1 de julho de 2011 09:24:42
mnlg:There's a lot of publications like that nowadays .geo63:How could you buy a newspaper in such a way that you could not read the news?You buy one that does not have any.
La publikiga firmo faris la gazeton kun nur amuzaĵoj, por ke ili profitus. Bedaŭrinde, la ordinara homo aĉetis la gazeton por ke ili lernus pri multaj aferoj tra la mondo. Pro tiu ĉi stranga situacio, la homo aĉetis la gazeton tiel ke li ne povis legi la novaĵojn.
The only problem about that though that I can tell is that it doesn't have the same impact as English, since "gazeto" and "novaĵoj" don't share the same roots...
Is there another way to say newspaper?
Kraughne (Mostrar o perfil) 1 de julho de 2011 10:30:12
ceigered:La publikiga firmo faris la gazeton el nur amuzaĵoj, por ke ĝi profitu. Bedaŭrinde, la ordinara homo aĉetis la gazeton por ke li lernu pri multaj aferoj en la mondo. Pro tiu ĉi stranga situacio, la homo aĉetis la gazeton tiel ke li ne povis legi la novaĵojn.Sometimes these sprees take on a life of their own. Honestly it makes me feel kind of bad, heh. It's even likely someone will correct my corrections.
ceigered:Is there another way to say newspaper?Ĵurnalo. ;P
ceigered (Mostrar o perfil) 1 de julho de 2011 10:55:13
Kraughne:I don't think "kun", "tra" and debatably "ili" needed corrections so much as they could be argued as being a different style, but thanks for correcting my -us's which should be just-u's .ceigered:La publikiga firmo faris la gazeton el nur amuzaĵoj, por ke ĝi profitu. Bedaŭrinde, la ordinara homo aĉetis la gazeton por ke li lernu pri multaj aferoj en la mondo. Pro tiu ĉi stranga situacio, la homo aĉetis la gazeton tiel ke li ne povis legi la novaĵojn.Sometimes these sprees take on a life of their own. Honestly it makes me feel kind of bad, heh. It's even likely someone will correct my corrections.
That said, I swear I've seen "por ke (blah blah blah)-us" done before (which probably inspired me to use -us instead of -u)... Wonder where...
Chainy (Mostrar o perfil) 1 de julho de 2011 12:46:16
sudanglo:I'm very surprised by your opinion here. "Tiel" means "in such a way" so it sounds really silly in the above sentence.
However, 'Mi aĉetis ĵurnalon tiel ke mi povu/povis legi la lastajn informojn pri la Eŭro- krizo' sounds perfectly ordinary in Esperanto to my ear.
sudanglo:It's not a subsitute, but another meaning. In fact 'tial ke' is pretty much the same as 'ĉar' or 'pro tio, ke'
You can also use 'tial ke' as a substitute for 'por ke'.
See PMEG: here
Chainy (Mostrar o perfil) 1 de julho de 2011 12:49:27
ceigered:La publikiga firmo faris la gazeton kun nur amuzaĵoj, por ke ili profitus. Bedaŭrinde, la ordinara homo aĉetis la gazeton por ke ili lernus pri multaj aferoj tra la mondo. Pro tiu ĉi stranga situacio, la homo aĉetis la gazeton tiel ke li ne povis legi la novaĵojn.How would you put that last sentence in English?! It sounds pretty weird.
ceigered (Mostrar o perfil) 1 de julho de 2011 13:07:20
Chainy:Well, I was aiming for weird so good to see I'm on the right track .ceigered:La publikiga firmo faris la gazeton kun nur amuzaĵoj, por ke ili profitus. Bedaŭrinde, la ordinara homo aĉetis la gazeton por ke ili lernus pri multaj aferoj tra la mondo. Pro tiu ĉi stranga situacio, la homo aĉetis la gazeton tiel ke li ne povis legi la novaĵojn.How would you put that last sentence in English?! It sounds pretty weird.
"Because of this strange situation, the person bought the gazette such that (or "in that way that") he couldn't read the news".
Probably "Pro tiu ĉi situacio, la homo kiu aĉetis la gazeton ne povis legi la novaĵojn" is better, but that would defeat the point of writing such a convoluted example of both "por ke" and "tiel ke"...